“Got a charge on my credit card from “Member Services” for $19.23. This is a card I use for 3 specific bills, and I pay them off the day after the charge shows. I know it’s coming so this stood out.
I called the bank to find out more, and they pointed out this has been happening every 3 months, on the same day, starting in February. I asked for more info on the merchant – All they could give me was “Florida” and an 800#. They said to call them and find out what’s going on and then call the bank back if everything doesn’t go well. So I call the number.
“Thank you for calling Home’s Club – Formerly eClub”
Who what huh? 3 for customer service. “Hi, who are you and why are you charging my credit card?”"
Apparently they’re a company that offers a warranty package on my Dish Network equipment but the Customer Service rep pointed out on the phone that I get a FREE warranty package called dish home protection package straight from DISH network so i look it up in my bill, and sure enough I do.
So I ask, obviously, ‘Why are you charging me for this if I get it for free?’
‘Well, we cover your equipment in the case of fire, flood, acts of god, etc.’
This is something my homeowners covers, why the hell would I pay for their plan? I tell them I’ve never signed up for this (which I haven’t) and to refund this month’s and all 3 previous month’s charges ( 19.23 x 4 = 76.92). They will only do this months and put my account into ‘review’ for the previous months.
‘How long will that take?’ I ask.
‘I’ve seen them come back within 72 hours’ she says.
‘So you’ll call me in 72 hours with a resolution’
‘Oh no sir, you have to call us. Please wait 72 hours and then check on your claim. We’ve canceled your service. Goodbye’
So i call the bank back, not only will they not refund the fraud charges from the past but they won’t even contact me, i just have to harass them to see if they got around to it? This is where shit gets good.
I talk to a low level CSR first. He tells me that since they’re checking into it, the bank can do nothing. Oh and by the way, the Feb and May charges – too old – can’t do anything about that. He says in 30 days if I don’t hear back I can dispute the august charge (and November if it isn’t reversed). I’m actually OK with this and understand it’s on my shoulders to check more often for fraud charges.
So then i say, ‘in the meantime, please cancel my card and issue me a new number so they can’t try to continue to charge me’.
He tells me the old number will be linked and any merchant that charges me with authorization for a service contract with me will get billed onto the new card.
‘WHAT?!’ I exclaim.
So I get pissed at this point, and describe a ‘hypothetical’ situation (which happens to be exactly what’s going on now, and he knows this) about how a fraud company could say they had my authorization and continue to charge me. This makes him angry. Then I ask him how they would charge me when I took my accounts to another bank. This makes him angrier. So after he’s done raising his voice, I ask for a manager.
She tells me basically the same thing, only this time, a new nugget of information: Your previously closed accounts can be re-opened and charged by service companies that say they have your authorization to charge that card for services.
I.e. I can take my BofA accounts and credit cards to Wells Fargo, and 3 months later, BofA will reopen my closed credit cards and hand me a bill if they keep charging me.
So, let’s recap: I can – request a new number because of fraud, report my card lost or stolen, cancel my card entirely, and change banks.
And fraudulent charges will still be my responsibility. On closed credit cards.
So much for credit cards being safer than debit cards – no type of card is safe.
Thanks,
-Jimmy
There’s a complaint on RipOffReport describing a marketing company offering a similar “Home’s Club Insurance” for DISH network that also was a huge hassle with erroneous charges that they resisted returning to customers. Sounds like a sleazy operation. You might want to contact DISH and see what they have to say as well.
We’re pretty sure the Bank of America’s rep excuse about the charge being too old to reverse is false.
And a new account will be linked to the old and charges can still be passed on? What the hell? Closing your account is supposed to be the number one way to stop fraudulent transactions. So Bank of America is telling us that we can continue to be defrauded forever as long as the company keeps saying we gave them an authorization? So Bank of America is basically powerless to stop credit card fraud?
Apparently, yes, and not just credit card fraud. In May, a Chicago Tribune reporter and Bank of America customer was a victim of old fashioned check washing fraud. The perp stole an envelope containing a payment the reporter had made for his student loans, and changed it to make himself the payee. The reporter closed the account, got a new one, placed a fraud alert, and filed a police report. The thief was still able to cash the check because Bank of America linked the old account to the new.
Try calling back again. This time, don’t get testy. The moment you lose your cool is the moment you lose.
There’s also these escalation numbers:
Executive Customer Relations: 704-386-5687
Corporate Headquarters: 704-386-5972 / 704-386-5681
Operator: 800-900-9000 (press 0 twice)
And writing the CEO:
Mr. Kenneth D. Lewis
100 N. Tryon Street.
Mail Code NC-1-007-18-01
Charlotte, NC 28255
American Express is much better about doing chargebacks and finding in favor of the customer. Consider switching.
RELATED: Closed Your Account Because Of Fraud? Bank Of America Helpfully Links Your New Account
(Photo: epicharmus)
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More Info about E-Club
Including two comments from DISH Network employees at the bottom. Sounds like this is the scam as I didn’t sign up directly with DISH – I signed up through a 3rd party.
I actually had a similar incident happen to me with BOA. I had closed my accounts and moved everything and then three months later I received a bill for almost $300. When I contacted them they admitted that the charges were fraud but since I hadn’t contacted them within 30 day’s that it was my fault and they refused to do anything other then close the account on their side and turned it to collections.
@forever_knight:
I know it was my fault. Thats why I didn’t go any further with OnStar or BofA. But just the fact that they were somehow able to link to that checking account without my knowledge just pisses me off. And that BofA let them do it! The fact that it took me a few months to catch it is totally my fault.
Oops, got too involved in my rant and forgot the real point! Doh.
Even though this charge should have been investigated earlier (thereby removing the opportunity for BofA to screw you over, because you KNOW they will given any opportunity at all!), I do agree that BofA is behaving outrageously in allowing charges to continue! My card company won’t renew a charge I WANT past an expiration date without my filling out new forms to re-establish the transaction! That irritated me, but as compared to this situation, I guess I’ll choose to look at the bright side now.
But this is why I keep an eagle eye on my statements because it’s much harder to fix things later.
@mconfoy: Re: in WRITING…and why it’s not a default (for Buran’s question)…
Hate to tell ‘ya, but I do believe it is FEDERAL regulation.
Look at it this way my fellow consumerists, calling them is a great convenience, BUT you need to do it in writing.
Summary Reg E: To take advantage of the Regulation E procedures, you must believe there is an error in a payment transaction that is from one of the following causes: you did not authorize the payment; or the payment amount is not correct; or there is an error on the bank statement relating to a Direct Payment.
You should contact your bank as soon as you are aware of a problem. You must contact your bank within 60 days after it first sends you a statement showing the error. If you contact the bank by telephone, the bank will require or ask you to confirm your dispute in writing. You must (1) tell your bank your name and account number, (2) the amount of the error, and (3) describe why you believe there is an error, or what information you need to determine if there was an error.
The bank should investigate the error within 10 business days and notify you within 3 days of completing that investigation. If your bank needs more than 10 business days to investigate, then it must credit your account temporarily while it completes an investigation. Your bank must respond to your dispute within 45 days. If your bank concludes that there was no error, then it will tell you in writing and it will withdraw the money it temporarily deposited. If your bank determines there was an error, then it must correct that error promptly.
This is a summary of certain provisions of Regulation E.
Your Disclosure PROVIDES for all your redress or recourse procedures. Again, CALLING may work, but it it doesn’t you need to put it in writing…I’m not saying I agree with all the mumbo-jumbo, just giving you the facts that are the STATE and FEDERAL Regs the banks MUST follow. If they decide to offer you something outside of what they required to do; take it and run.
In some cases of a fraudulent charge, you may need to also file a police report (again, those regs), but if there is a sliver of “authorized acceptance” that you may have agreed-to, you also need to revoke That with the billing company.
@NoWin: my bad: Again, CALLING may work, but it it doesn’t ….should be
Again, CALLING may work, but IF it doesn’t ….
@kingoman: But this is why I keep an eagle eye on my statements because it’s much harder to fix things later.
A worthy Consumerist!
Cell phone companies can do this too. Any Joe Blow ringtone company can just sign you up and start charging you and it’s up to you to dispute the charges and get it taken off your bill.
According to ATT, you can’t stop it from happening again, either, unless you have them disable any sort of text messaging or data plan, which is obviously untrue.
Lesson? Watch your bills – probably every one of you has some kind of bullshit charge on some account you’re not watching close enough.
@Leiterfluid: Much the same here. I’ve been a B of A customer here in the D.C. area since I moved here 14 years ago, and have never had the kind of problems people raise here. In fact, on multiple occasions B of A people have bent over backwards to make me a happy customer–without my needing to complain, cajole, yell, scream, or even adopt a disapproving tone of voice.
This shouldn’t be done, but on the other hand, he didn’t notice until the fourth time it was getting charged? I can understand not noticing until the second time (and that’s leeway), but if he’s so diligent about checking his account and paying off items as soon as the charge goes on the card, why hadn’t he noticed he was getting a mysterious $19-plus charge?
i just had the same problem with Capital One. I canceled a card about 6 months ago, due to some unauthorized charges. about a month ago, Real Simple magazine put a charge through on the OLD CARD NUMBER that showed up on my new card number! i never authorized this charge, and was shocked that Capital One put a charge through on a card that was closed due to fraud.
i called Real Simple, and asked them to reverse the charge, which they did. i then called Capital One, to make sure they didn’t post any other charges for the old card number. you know what they told me? they couldn’t prevent them from going through! if a company processes a charge, the only way to reverse it would be for me to call the company directly.
so basically, there is NO fraud protection.
So, with EVERYTHING I hear about Bank of America, coupled with my own personal experience(which is very poor), how the fuck does anyone ever do any business with this bank?
I think bofa’s new slogan should be;
“It’s not your money, until we say it is”
Oh yeah, almost forgot;
Fuck Dish TV too. That’s how the OP’s fraud started. Dish gave this company his billing info. Someone should look into that, and see exactly what the relationship between these two companies really is.
@boberto: I posted a couple links above – it seems my signing up for DISH through 3rd party companies that resell DISH was the problem.
Although – this is based upon a comment on RipOffReport that it purportedly from a DISH network employee, and not my own research, so it could be false.
Your checking account (and debit card usage) is covered under Regulation E. Credit cards are covered under Regulation Z (lending). Credit card companies are required to work within the regulations of Visa, MasterCard, etc. as well as within federal regulations. This claim would not be covered under Reg. E. and if you’re past 60 days, you don’t have chargeback rights under Visa regs (not sure about Mastercard, etc.). But you can always dispute the items that are within 60 days of your last statement cut date. You will almost always have to put your dispute in writing (for your side of the story) and if you declare that an item is fraud, you’ll have to sign an affidavit and have it notarized.
@Hathor: The thing that sucks is, though, is that I don’t even care about the money. It’s not that big of a deal. The ability to change my number so they can’t do this again – that’s the bigger deal.
@Hathor: This claim would not be covered under Reg. E.
You are correct. For some reason I was thinking debit card was in play with this, rather than cc. Glad you brought Reg Z up, as the common denominator is “in writing”.
If anyone is still reading this thread….
1) I’ve found that in every aspect, my community bank has bent over backwards to help me, sometimes even when it went against general (or specific) bank policy. They know my name, and I know their’s. It helps.
2)
I have only initiated disputes through my non-cobranded Discover, who as I understand does the processing and funding themselves, without a third-party (i.e. BoA)
Would you be able to dispute this with the card processing company (VISA/MC)? They are the companies that provide the protection policies…do they enforce the policies and directly assist in disputes, or is something they simply defer as an expectation of the funding bank?
3)And would any of this be relevant in light of the Fair Credit Billing Act, which might allow a legal right to withhold payment on the disputed amount?
I want to stress the fact that my community bank has bent over backwards for me, as opposed to BoA and most national bank’s expectation that I bend over and take it in my backwards.
BoA keeps giving me reasons to move my checking to USAA. I haven’t had any problems with my account through them so far, but I really don’t want to deal with their shit if I ever do. I already moved my savings out, and if I move my checking I could actually use other ATMS without being hit with stupid fees. The city I’m in now only has one BoA ATM and no branch, so moving to a branchless bank like USAA wouldn’t even be too bad.
I stopped reading when I hit: “So i call the bank back, not only will they not refund the fraud charges from the past but they won’t even contact me, i just have to harass them to see if they got around to it? This is where shit gets good.”
This wasn’t fraud. This wasn’t the bank’s fault. They shouldn’t have to fight because you’re too stupid to keep track of your own shit. If they were to fight, great; but, you know what? They don’t have to, and who can blame them; with a bunch of irresponsible morons for customers, they’d probably be spending an enormous of money fighting for them.
You lose.
Calling Dish wont help. It is a reseller that is charging you, completely separate from DISH. You can file a complaint with Dish, but it wont do anything
If the bank won’t help you secure your account by ensuring that you’ve authorized purchases in advance, they should bloody well help you when you haven’t authorized a purchase.
It should be a law.
Using your bank issued card for anything other than ATM withdrawals is a bad idea, in my opinion.
Giving anyone permission to make periodic withdrawals from your bank account is also a bad idea, in my opinion.
When my aunt died she had CD’s at 5 different banks. While a bank is NOT required to cash a CD without a penalty in situations where the client has passed away… every OTHER bank cashed them with no problem, even passing along condolences for our loss.
Bank of America was the only one that wanted to charge a penalty ($thousands) to be able to cash out that CD so the estate could be settled.
The ironic thing was… while we were waiting in the lobby to talk to a rep, I looked through the sign-in book at the reasons people were wanted to talk to someone… almost every reason said… “closing account.” After OUR conversation… it made sense.
“I.e. I can take my BofA accounts and credit cards to Wells Fargo, and 3 months later, BofA will reopen my closed credit cards and hand me a bill if they keep charging me.”
I don’t know how accurate this statement is – I don’t think any institution has the right to reopen closed accounts so to be honest w/ u this assumption here is rather “suspect.”
From experience, yes transactions can be carried over to the new card, but only if the merchant actually requests an order something very similar to a chargeback so yes it can happen if the account is still open. Once a card is closed (no balance) then it’s closed, attempted transactions are rejected.
There should be an option to place an electronic stop payment/revoke authorization for the transaction.
Yes, under Regulation E (I believe) there is a specific time-frame to report unauthorized transactions. If you go beyond it institutions can’t file a claim on your behalf.
My suggestion would be to take names and contact information such as a call back number of some sort, and keep your temper in check b/c regardless of how ludicrous the situation is you’re not getting any help by yelling.
@johnva: “Don’t tell them you’ve tried to deal with the company or anything unless they ask you.”
When my card recently had some fraud charges on it, I was asked if I had contacted the company about them. And I truthfully said I hadn’t bothered, I knew they weren’t real charges and I wasn’t going to pay them. They said “sometimes people like to know where they got their information.”
While on the one hand I was curious how an insurance company in Mexico got my card number, dealing with it through the company making the charges has almost never worked out for me.
This entire situation seems pretty wrong. If you close your account, you close your account. That should be the end of the story. If a credit card can suspend activity because you do something strange like buy several things in another country, then why can’t they call you to confirm you want the account reopened and charged X amount?
I paid to the California property tax in 1998. It was never submitted to the payee. I received a late fee bill from tax collector. I faxed it to BOA customer service. They say it was too long ago. The amount of late charges was $260.00.
2. I made a payment with my debit with paypal. I eccidently chose the wrong company to pay. BOA mentioned it was over 60 days and can’t be refunded.
I have banked with BOA since 1995.
A similar thing happened to me with US Bank. Many years back when I had my own business, I had an account with US Bank. I had various things that deposited to that account, including my merchant services account with Novus (for Discover cards.)
I changed banks (curiously, because I wasn’t happy with US Bank for various reasons) and I remembered to change all of my EFT stuff except for Novus. I processed a transaction on a Discover card, and it went through without error. As this was before the era of Internet banking, a couple of weeks go by before I get my statement, and my bank account is several hundred dollars light. I track down the missing transaction, call Novus to see what gives and it turns out they processed it normally. Right into my closed account, which the bank “conveniently” reopened for me.
Had the bank rejected my transaction outright, Novus said, they would have called me directly, the problem would have been solved several days earlier and much frustration would have been avoided.
I went down to my local US Bank branch, where I had done all my business, and they told me that in cases like this they reopen the account “for my convenience.” No joke. Then they wanted to charge me a monthly fee for having the account open. After a rather heated discussion, they decided the fee would be waived, and I got a cashiers check for the balance and closed the account again. They did say, though, that they could not keep this sort of thing from happening in the future.
Lesson: Banks can and will open accounts even after they are closed, so it is a really, really good idea to monitor those things often even if you think they are over and done with.