ATA Tries To Have You Arrested For Using Your iPhone In "Airplane Mode"
The iPhone has a setting that makes it safe to use on an airplane. So-called "airplane mode" disables cell phone, radio, Wi-Fi, and Bluetooth signals, thus allowing you to watch movies staring Jennifer Love Hewitt while flying through the air.
And that's what reader Casey tried to do. Unfortunately, it seems that the flight attendants had never heard of "airplane mode," and called the police when Casey refused to stop watching I Know What You Did Last Summer.
I am an iPhone owner, and this is my story. I recently was traveling to Hawaii on ATA airlines and took my iPhone along for the trip. During the first 2 hours of my 5 hour flight I was listening to music using the ipod function of my iPhone.Casey submitted this complaint to ATA and they've not responded. Apple's website says that the iPhone is safe to use on an airplane while in "airplane mode," and we see no reason to doubt this.The iPhone was sitting on my tray table in front of my seat, in plain sight. Then I decided to watch a movie. So I fired up the classic "I know what you did last summer", a movie I had never seen before. About 1 and a half hours into this cinematic masterpiece I had a flight attendant try to get my attention.
I paused the movie just as Jennifer love Hewitt was screaming something about "please stop killing my friends" or "what do you want from me", honestly I am not sure what she was saying because I paused the movie and looked to see what the flight attendant wanted. He said something to the effect of "you can't use a cell phone in flight". OK, that makes sense, so I assured him that I had the phone in airplane mode and that all cell, wifi and bluetooth was off.
He again said "you have to stop using it" and walked on... Now I know something about flying and the rules, and I am pretty sure I can use the MP3 part of a cell phone if it is in airplane mode, above 10,000 feet. So, I continued to watch, needing to find out who the killer with the hook was and why they were messing with J Love.
About 10 minutes later, the same guy comes back and waves his hand in front of my face, I pause the movie again, and look over at him. He says that I am not allowed to use a cell phone in flight and I am breaking FAA rules. Again I tell him I have the phone in airplane mode, and would be more than happy to show that to him. He didn't want to see it and said I am breaking FAA rules.
"OK, maybe I am wrong ?" I think to myself.
So I ask what rule I am breaking. He tells me I am talking on my cell phone. I again explain I am not using the cell part and it is disabled. I go on to further explain that I have been on other airlines that have specific written rules that say cell phones in airplane mode are OK above 10,00 feet, so how could it be a FAA rule. And if it is, what rule ? He has no answer for that, but to now yells at me "You have to do anything I say, I am going to have you arrested"....
ANYTHING ? Wow...I didn't know they had that power in the air?
So now the head flight attendant comes over and tell me the same thing about FAA rules, and I explain again to her the same stuff, and asked her again "What rule am I breaking?" She runs off and comes back with a slip of paper that has about 4 or 5 FAA rules that the flight attendant is supposed to check off and sign and give to you as a written warning. She has crossed all of them out and written "Talking on cell phone"...I tell her again "I am not talking on my cell, the cell part is off, and this is a device that has many functions that maybe you are not aware of and the offending functions are disabled."
She goes on to tell me that I am breaking FAA rules. I say "WHAT RULE ?"
Oh, while this is going on the first flight attendant guy is behind her yelling at me about that he wants me arrested.
Then she runs off and comes back with a HUGE book of FAA rules. Finally, I will get to see the rule about no phones in airplane mode (even though I know it doesn't exist) She drops it in my lap, open to a page that says "Things not allowed in flight: Talking on cell phones, Playing online cell phone games... Things allowed over 10,00 feet: MP3 Players...etc.."
So I say "what does that show? I am not talking on my phone"
She grabs the book and runs off in a huff. And again the guy yells at me "I have called the police, you are going to jail"...
So we start our decent and I turn my iPhone off, because I follow REAL FAA rules. We land and there are police waiting for me, the flight attendant that started this whole thing makes me walk to the front of the plane while everyone else has to stay in their seats and I stand there for 10 minutes. I kind of feel like I am standing in front of class as punishment because I was disruptive, not that this has ever happened to me in school, ok maybe it has.
Then the police take me off the flight and to a waiting area. I explain everything that happened, they go and talk to the male flight attendant. I see him waving his arms and looking very angry and animated. Why is he so hell bent on getting me in trouble ? So then the police come back over to me and explain that he said this particular plane is not shielded for ANY electronic equipment at all, so even a phone in airplane mode could cause problems.
OK, so why didn't he tell me that at all in flight, all he said was i was breaking FAA rules, and also why was everyone else allowed to use their laptops, mp3 players, etc ?? The police officer looked confused, and said he would be right back. He talked to the guy again and then came back and said that the airplane is not shielded for ONLY phones in airplane mode.
Come on, really ? he has changed his story 3 times, and all he said in flight was FAA this and FAA that, nothing about this specific plane. The police sorta laughed and said wait one second, they went and talked to him, he got really upset and left. Then they came back to me and said I was free to go.
I have never been harassed by someone so much as that flight attendant. He was very rude to me the whole flight, lied about FAA rules, and changed his story to police 3 times. I took a Southwest flight later in the week, they have it clearly written in the inflight magazine that airplane mode is fine over 10,000 feet.
So, if you have an iPhone, ATA airlines does not want your business. I was harassed, embarrassed, and delayed for no reason, other than I own an iPhone, the ATA flight crew has no idea about what are real FAA rules, and they like to just make up whatever they want to scare you into obeying them, because you "have to do anything" they say...
Casey
It seems that ATA owes Casey a big apology.
(Photo:Drewski2112)
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Comments:
asshole..why cant you just do what you're told and turn the damn thing off? Would it have killed you to do so? I've run into the same problem and even after explaining about airplane mode, they still ask you to turn it off. So i just turn it off..why are you so special that you cant follow instructions?
Geez is it that big of a problem to just turn it off and avoid all the hassle. I mean the plane had to land and they had to talk to police, for what, to watch the last 30 minutes of a movie? Sure Casey was in the right but at some point you have to stop being stubborn and not make a jackass out of yourself.
@BTDOWN
The FA was an asshole, not the passenger. FAs are not allowed to make up rules on a whim. The "you have to do anything I say" attitude is BS.
First off...that movie SUCKED.
Secondly...a five hour flight is a five hour flight and I'd damn sure want to watch my IPhodouch if I were having to sit that long on a plane.
@btdown: That's what I thought when I saw the summary on the main page. But after reading the whole thing, I'm on Casey's side, especially if other people were listening to MP3 players and using laptops.
Look, I'm all for not causing disruptions and being a dick for no reason, but other people also need to do the same. And a flight attendant on a power trip who resents not being listened to in his little aluminum kingdom does not get to be a tinpot dictator.
Why should anyone "in the right" have to bow down before ignorant people with power? It doesn't matter if it is "needing" to show a receipt, turning off a phone, or not invading a country that doesn't have WMDs.
People with power must exercise that power with respect. I don't care how much of a "hassle" their jobs are. If you take a job that is a hassle, don't abuse your power because you need to dick wave.
@btdown: Asshole. Why is the flight attendant so special that everyone has to follow his inane and stupid orders?
There is absolutely no reason he should have turned it off, and I would have also continued to watch.
@ChewySquirrel: So it's okay for the flight attendant to make a jackass out of himself but not the consumer. Bad consumer!
And what is this "anything I say" bullshit? I believe I would be transcribing any such conversation I have with a 'uniformed crew member' from now on to make sure that as someone with so much control over the plane, I don't violate any FAA rules and regulations.
ATA sucks anyway, not like they'll ever get another dime off of me.
What you should have reason to doubt, however, is the mental capacity of your average in-flight attendant.
@btdown: Because the air waiters/waitresses don't make the rules, the FAA does. Casey was following FAA regulations, and the flight staff was totally in the wrong telling him to turn his video player off (in airplane mode, an iPhone is, for all intents and purposes, just an iPod Touch).
The staff on this flight knew they were in the wrong, but weren't mature enough to admit it, so they went to great lengths to bully one of their customers into compliance. I'm glad Casey stood up for his rights and if I were in his situation, I hope I would have done the exact same thing.
I'm sure Casey was a big hit with his fellow passengers. Especially during that part where people had to stay in their seats for 10 minutes after arrival. I imagine a triumphant movie-type scene, where all the passengers applaud and cheer Casey on during this altercation, and then they say, "We don't need to get off this plane! We will stay here as long as it takes and risk missing our connecting flights because we're behind you!"
If he'd at least been watching something good and worth defending...but all this for a JLoHew movie? Wait, don't tell me - it was the principle of the thing. Shut the thing off, then complain to ATA afterwards. Jebus.
He didn't do anything to disrupt the flight. The attendant did that.
Besides, if phones could *actually* cause problems for the aircraft, do you think they would even let them on the planes? You can't even bring your own water these days.
Actually, there is a FAA rule requiring compliance with all instructions from the flight crew. I would have turned it up and perused it with ATA and the FAA afterwards... citing non-existent regulations is a no-no. Glad the police were capable of thinking for themselves.
It's a think line bewtween being a person making a statement and making a scene. It seems as though in this case the passenger was in the right and these FAs need some updated training for the newest gadgets they will encounter. I remember being treated crappy trying to use an early discman on a flight in 89 or so as a kid simply because they didn't know HOW to deal with them.
@omerhi: Hah 'little aluminum kingdom' I have to find a way to use that in conversation.
Flight attendant was an asshole, seems like the passenger (other than terrible taste in movies) was being pleasant and rational throughout the entire ordeal. I would hope that I would have the guts to stick up to them, however chances are that I would just fold to get them to shut up.
Besides, that's why I bring multiple electronic devices on flights. Why limit yourself to just an iPhone. I would just shut down the offending device and pull out another electronic goodie.
PSP, Nintendo DS, phone, MP3 player, laptop....I need them all!!
You trailed off after the 'no online cell phone games' rule for cell phones. They could have viewed it as equivalent.
It seems like the rules are a bit behind the times but I get the feeling the gist is don't use your cellphone during the flight.
He should have just shown his receipt! Oh wait... err...
@btdown: One of you is an asshole... you or the iPhone-carrying original poster, and for once I don't think it's the guy with the iPhone. Just because someone is on a power trip and doesn't bother to know the rules doesn't mean they can expect unreasonable, unthinking adherence to any command they make. If the flight attendant told you to blow him, would you comply without argument? It would be nice if ATA apologizes, but if I'd been the one w/ the iPhone I think I would've been happy enough to see the flight attendant's snit when the police refused to do my irrational bidding that's unsupported by the regulations or by reality.
Go, Casey! Flying is miserable enough these days without flight attendants acting like junior-high bullies. Somebody needs to take these jerks down a peg or two.
@BTDOWN - I'm tired of being inconvenienced and hassled by tinpots, and so are a lot of other people. When one is abiding by the rules, one should have a reasonable expectation of being left in peace. That's not asking for "special" treatment, that is expecting common courtesy and good sense from others.
A lot of people who used to do whatever was necessary to keep the peace have started noticing that this just makes the tinpots more aggressive and invasive of what should be our business...so we're standing up to them, as we must to use social correction (embarrassment, primarily) to teach these people to think more clearly (or just to think) before they react.
@hypnotik_jello: They are unequivocally NOT equivalent. The key difference being ONLINE games, requiring the phone to be in communication with its network.
Yes, the FA was being a major-league asshole, I probably would have told him to go do anatomically impossible things with his genitals, but as I understand it, the FAA gives flight crews quite a bit of power. As long as they are not violating any constitutional rights, etc, the flight crew (particularly the Captain) can pretty much order you to do anything and it is a Federal Offense to not comply. In fact, interfering with a flight crew (partly defined as "lessens the ability of the member or attendant to perform [their] duties" can send you to Federal PMITA prison for up to life (49 USC 46504).
They might have a hard time making the case, specially if you are following FAA regulations, and the prosecutor will look like a complete dumbshit saying "the airplane wasn't shielded for phones in airplane mode" (which is a fantastic bit of bullshit), but you would still be risking prison time.
In defense of flight crews everywhere, the preponderance of cell phones with extra features probably makes their job harder. For one, how do you tell the phone is actually in airplane mode? Some of them show an antenna icon with an X over it, but that could easily mean "no signal", other show a picture of an airplane or something. FA's do not have the time or the training to go look at everybody's screen and make sure it's in airplane mode, and assuming their phone has it, many people are too dumb to know how to activate it. That said, odds are at least 2 or 3 people on every flight have left their phone on accidentaly, and planes aren't crashing left and right.
ATA is still in business?
Last time I flew with them, my seat smelled like urine.
They can suck it.
i would have just said its not a phone, its the new ipod touch. sounds like he wouldn't have been smart enought to know the difference anyway.
To those of you calling the OP a jackass, asshole, etc.: dial it back a notch or go find another post that's more interesting to you.
While there is an FAA rule the OP was shown (aka the "10-minute, 10,000-foot limit"), the use of PEDs (Portable Electronic Devices) is ultimately under the control of the airline and its staff. Not all planes are shielded the same, and what may be OK on one carrier may not be OK on another. It's the responsibility of the carrier to determine which devices are safe or unsafe for use in flight. Check the inflight magazine or the company's website... they usually have a list.
PEDs cause interference that can mess with certain instruments on the plane and create a dangerous situation. So even a phone in "airplane mode" will give off interference that could cause problems if the plane is not shielded for it.
Personally, I think the OP over reacted and should have just waited to finish his movie later.
and that game rule applies only to online gaming. i would have done the same thing as this guy. i don't take too lightly to people tramping all over me and my rights.
As for the myth of cell phone interferance, commercial planes are separated by miles, and are flying IFR, so are always being watched by Air Traffic Control, who would tell them if they are off course. The only time I could see a phone causing a problem (assuming they can actually interfere with navigation equipment) is during an ILS landing, and even then, the pilot can take control as soon as he feel something going wrong (i.e. he is off the ILS glideslope).
And for those of you bitching aloud, which of the following two scenarios would cause the least amount of panic an anxiety on a flight:
a) The captain announces over the loudspeaker "The communications and/or nav equipment is being interfered with by something on the plane. Please shut off all electronic devices now."
b) The cabin through discretely walks through the plane looking for devices it knows can cause interference (ie. everyone with a laptop) and asks individual passengers to turn those devices off.
@MercuryPDX: Grrrr...
b) The cabin CREW discretely walks through the plane looking for devices it knows can cause interference (ie. everyone with a laptop) and asks individual passengers to turn those devices off.
He should have turned off the device and then filed a complaint with the airlines after the plane landed.
My phone has a built in GPS and flight mode and I enjoy watching where the plane is. So far no one has said anything to me, but if they did I would first tell them in was in flight mode and if they still wanted it off, I'd comply.
@hypnotik_jello: D'oh! I clicked reply on your post below @girly: "...the 'no online cell phone games' rule for cell phones. They could have viewed it as equivalent." My aim apparently sucks today.
i think the flight attendants should at least be educated on the airplane mode for cell phones. i have flown before with my phone on the whole time and didn't know it. don't know if i would have had service up there because it didn't realize i forgot to turn it off the whole time. noone but me knew,(no annoucements or anything of the sort.
Yet nobody else using MP3 players and laptops got the treatment this customer did? What happens when I use my Treo as a MP3 player? Same difference.
I can think of one electronic device I would break out in this situation... my Olympus digital voice recorder.
Can iPhones record video?
i fly southwest or northwest. maybe not as cozy, but i've always had good experiences with fa's. (i'm a BIG tipper). i always get more than just the 2 drink limit.
@dburba: durba not being discriminated is a right. noone else was told to turn off their electronic device. sounds to me like this fa hated apple or iphone, (who knows but i know there really are haters of all sorts) and if you stood in 8 hours to buy one, i know a few people that want to punch you in the face. don't know why? but there are those kinds of people out there.
@JRuiz47: For all you know, they did. The OP doesn't mention anyone else being asked to turn anything off, witness any other passenger in the same situation putting up a fight (which I think he'd mention), or complying quietly (he's so engrossed in his movie would he even notice?).
I'd fly ATA if I could get a ride on one of their L-1011s...Don't want to have to join the military first, though.
@MercuryPDX: no the article says that when the police became involved the op said noone else was asked to turn off their device. read the article. again.
one word to sum up this whole thing then i'm out......POWERTRIP!
@INconsumer: Yes, the OP says that after the fact, not a flight attendant or anyone else in the cabin crew. How does the OP know what's going on in the plane around him if he's admittedly too busy watching his movie?
@amejr999: Amejr999 is correct. You disobey flight personnel at anytime while you are on the plane, you are breaking the law. Casey is lucky he wasn't charged with "interfering with a flight operation" or some other massive and frightening felony. A lot of cops would easily slip into the "airport=no mercy" mentality and let a judge sort this all out.
Bottom line is, an airline flight attendant doesn't have to explain why they asked you to do something. You HAVE to do it, or you are in violation of the law. I would also strongly encourage the advice of WEAVE - arguing with a flight attendant is never a good idea, and having police summoned to greet your arrival is something that a cranky or power-tripping flight attendant would be more then happy to arrange, PARTICULARLY at a low-rent airline like ATA.
Again - arguing with a flight attendant, IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, could very well lead to your arrest. Be warned!
Now Casey - go get that apology from ATA!
For all those people who said just comply. Why are you even looking at this website. You should just comply with everything and have no reason to read this website.
well he did pause it. all he would have to do once paused is look around. and the fa wasn't upset at electronics, just phones. that is clear in the article. i mean in the faa book they flipped to the phone part, not the general electronics.
Oh, the ills of the first world. We feel your righteous indignation, especially that part about being subjected to I Know What You Did Last Summer. Acting like a jackass in the face of another jackass doesn't make you a hero; it just makes you a jackass. Being a savvy consumer has nothing to do with making a scene, inconveniencing an entire flight, hauling out the airport PD and then firing off a smug letter to the internet. Save the empowerment for something that matters.
>She grabs the book and runs off in a huff. And again the guy
>yells at me "I have called the police, you are going to jail"...
Did they call the police on a cell phone? That would have been deliciously ironic.