According to reader Todd, there are quite a few customers are finding their “Orange Box” games have been deactivated by Valve because they bought them from a seller that wasn’t authorized to do business with US customers.
The seller made the mistake, but the gamers are paying the price.
Todd says:
This complaint is about Valve, a PC video game company which makes games like Half-Life 2.
This effects many thousands of customers.
They recently released a product called the “Orange Box”, which is a bunch of games.
All their products are activated online via unique serial numbers through the Steam service.Many of us bought the product (and hence, the serial numbers) legitimately online via well known international game stores, as they sell them significantly cheaper than American stores.
We were able to activate the products without a problem.
One week later, Valve, via the Steam program, inactivated all Orange Box games (after they had already been active for some time), stating that they are in the “incorrect territory.”
There was no warning or anything, just completely inactivated.The thread that was started on http://www.valve.com has been removed by the operators there.
I think this is absolutely reprehensible customer care. We paid for our products, and they just go and remove it without warning from our computers.
Thanks
-Todd
Here’s a thread of irritated Valve customers like Todd who are trying to get refunds from their international vendors (with varying levels of success.) Customers who have purchased the game a second time from a US vendor and are having difficulty adding it to their accounts are having trouble communicating with Valve’s customer service.
Date Posted: Oct/22/2007 7:57 PM
Rating: +1same crap here
this was my question======================================================================================
Customer (xxx xxxxxxxx) 10/20/2007 11:07 AM
Hello my cd-key was invalidated and game removed
i get a steam error
Steam – Game unavailable
Team Fortress 2 is not available in your territoryok so i contacted retailer to get a refund
and purchased a new copy at a local Circuit City here in Tacoma
but when i enter new cd-key says game is already installed log in to steam
but of course that doesn’t work and takes me back to
Steam – Game unavailable
Team Fortress 2 is not available in your territoryso i guess i need the supposedly invalid cd-key removed
so i can enter my new one
thanks======================================================================================
Response (DougV) 10/22/2007 05:06 PM
Games purchased in Thailand or Russia can only be played from those countries. If you purchased a game from Thailand or Russia and you do not live in one of those countries, you need to contact the seller for a refund.
======================================================================================
Customer (xxx xxxxxxx) 10/22/2007 05:37 PM
yes did you even read what i said?
and do what i asked you to do
guess not
What a mess!
Valve Orange Box for ~20$ [Fat Wallet]
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Whether or not you’re “smelling identity theft” is irrelevant to the fact that Valve has been selling software around the world with no pre-sale notice that it will be disabled without refund if you play it outside the country it was sold, and now, up to three years later, is deactivating that software without notice.
DVD and game console regions are pretty clearly labeled; in contrast, there is no standard for enforcing regions in PC software, and the users had no reason to expect this practice to start now, out of the blue.
Valve is clearly in the wrong here. If there were enough people involved to start a class action suit, I bet an awful lot of accounts would be restored within days if not hours.
But I doubt it’s actually big enough of a deal for that. More important is that people start to realize that games that require revocable online activation, like anything running through Steam, are a risky investment. If you “buy” such a game, at best your investment only lasts as long as the company is in business and doesn’t mess something up. At worst, you may be paying for nothing at all.
My thought on DVD regions, and prices differing in countries is this:
If a company can out source to get the lowest rate for labor, why cant we do the equivalent and shop where it is cheapest?
Wait, people still play video games?
I don’t think this is a nice move. I think Valve should let these players play their game, and then make it clear in future releases (or even this one, starting at a specific date) that buying overseas is no longer acceptable. Because right now it seems like they’re trying to make up for potentially lost money by being mean to customers who didn’t pay enough, rather than trying to legitimately enforce an existing rule.
Okay, first off – Zest IS a legit store. They are like Thailand’s version of GameStop (on a smaller scale). They have four locations in major shopping centers, plus their online store. A member on cheapassgamer.com actaully lives near one a has purchased there before.
Second – There’s nothing illegal about buying overseas. I was one of the people who bought through this site and I paid full retail price, 575 Baht. Also, the game worked fine for a full week before Valve decided to block the keys, so they obviously didn’t care about it before this. Why did they start now?
Third – Since when is PC software region-locked?? I read a forum where a gamer from the UK had bought a game on Steam, travelled to the US for a few weeks with his laptop, and discovered that he could no longer play that game, which he 100% legally purchased, because his current IP address was from the US. How is that fair?
All hail the global marketplace!
@y2julio: Really? Then I guess that all the times I’ve bought stuff out of the country (not software) means I’m dishonest? Someone out of the USA was willing to sell it to me for less, even after the cost of shipping to the USA.
That makes me dishonest? Why? No, it just means I took the time to find the best deal.
If I am sold something, and not told that it won’t work just anywhere, and the store takes international orders, I consider the item defective if it then proves to not work when I get it home. The store certainly knows where I live from my shipping and billing addresses.
Don’t like having to issue refunds to foreign buyers when something you sold didn’t work for them and you failed to tell them about it? Then don’t take orders from foreign buyers in the first place! Duh.
But I guess to some people I’m a cheater for actually taking advantage of good deals.
Okay, with the presence of ebay, used game stores, and such how can ANYONE know where these games came from? Seriously.
I have NEVER seen a region locked game before. DVDs yes, but not games. Hell, a lot of players buy Japanese versions of counsel games before they come out over here. Eruopian players normally do the same thing due to the later release date, or even the lack of a release date.
THIS is the reason I go for hard copies of all my games, and refuse to buy anything from download media. Easy to change the rules on a downloaded copy. Not so easy with a hard copy media which can be used on any PC even if it’s not net bound. If the game dosen’t have a hard copy CD version avalible? I don’t buy it.
The problem is with people who A: Assume that if you buy it from Thailand that you are buying it off the back of a donkey and B: Have never purchased from Zest so have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA whatsoever in the slightest of what they are talking about. In Australia, the Zest deal is very appealing because we are limited to the amount of data that we can download. However, going to EB and buying a game will see a 20 or 30% markup above steam. So the logical answer is to go to Zest and buy it as I have done 10 times before without a problem. The other issue is that Steam says in their advertising that you can play your game that you purchased anywhere on any computer. They then turn around and say “no sir. We didn’t mean it like that”. Zest is a fantastic retailer and is the only option for us in Australia that don’t feel like paying twice the amount for games that people in the USA do.
Granted, customers of deactivated products should have gotten an email explaining what was going on and why. However, I see no reason why Valve doesn’t have every right to price their products how they see fit and enforce it. It’s like buying a product with a European electrical plug because it’s priced lower and then complaining that it won’t work in the US. Sure, it’s a better price…but it’s not meant for use in the US and they certainly don’t have any obligation to accommodate such use.
As a software developer I understand where they are coming from. Piracy is rampant, especially in certain geographic locations. Different pricing schemes can be used in these areas to help encourage consumers from buying instead of stealing. Earning a little less is better than earning nothing at all. The market over here can bear more, so you pay more. Nothing wrong with that. I think you’d find it difficult for anyone to say US retail price for the orange box isn’t an absolute bargain already. These people are just complete and utter tightwads.
I’ve never seen a region locked PC game until now. You generally get locked DVD’s due to PAL and NTSC, they’re not compatible. If I buy a PC game in Britain thats no Orange Box it will work in any country without fail. Valve seem greedy here and want to thrive on exchange rates, I know I can get the game cheaper in the US then the UK, but they’re forcing me to buy it in my country.
There is laws set in Europe that we’re allowed to buy anything from any country within the EU and it shouldn’t have limitations. Any who disagree can research Itunes in Europe and why the prices aren’t the same, not limited to that you’re locked from purchasing from those regions. The European commision are pressing on Apple to sort it out as it goes against our laws. Maybe this is something that will eventually get sorted out here, as it goes against European law.
I know some of these games where bought in Thailand, but the same applies if anyone in Europe buys in another European territory. Valve already got sued once in Germany for this kind of tactics back in 2004.
I have a copy of a Thai version, I have the box and all with me and nowhere on it does it say that the product is territory restricted or that distribution outside of that region is prohibited/unlicensed. It just says that the product is “For sale in Thailand only”.
Whats really upsetting is that Valve originally said on the Q&A page that the reason they were disabling CD-Keys from Thailand and Russia were that e-tailors were sending CD-keys only and that the users were not reading the restrictions on the box( but there is nothing about territory restrictions on the package). I sent the Valve a question about this and to give me a legit reason for disabling my keys days ago and I still have no answers from them, but the seemed to have changed the Q&A to this topic.
What more upsetting is that Valve is locking up every single thread related to this topic as if they didn’t want anyone to notice. Great customer support eh?
Here’s a question. Say I’m an expatriot living in Oz or Thailand, have purchased the game. Then move stateside. Boot up my computer (sigh – if only Valve deigned to support Mac, but I digress), launch Team Fortress 2 and Valve nukes it. Completely legit use of the game, not restricted by anything that Valve or EA warn against. Yet I’ve just had my games stolen by Valve.
That doesn’t seem right.
If this situation isn’t right, I’m not sure the one that some have experienced is, either.
This is why I no longer buy valve games.
Through the times I have spent hundreds of dollars on valve products, cause I liked what they were doing and I never had a problem.
But one extremely important thing has become apparent. They do not care about their customers. Actions like these is the reason Valve has many outstanding customer support problems, and multiple complains as a business. They don’t care about their customers. Which is pretty far out there considering it is we who let them do what they love the most.
Seeing as all valve games and countless other games are purchasable and only playable through their steam portal. They should really have gotten their act together with customer support. But instead they have a I am right and everyone else is wrong attitude where helping a customer comes second to everything else.
They will rather steal your money and force you to pay double than help you out with your problem and make for a better community.
Personally I am never buying any game that goes through steam again. Therefore goodbye valve games. Which means I am missing out on great games like Team Fortress 2 and Left 4 Dead.
But the lack of security that comes with their customer support just isn’t worth it. To know that if the off chance that something would happen to your account (IE the current deactivate issue) you are better off just buying a second copy of the game rather than asking customer support to resolve the issue.
In my opinion someone should step up. I feel like they are stealing my property. Things I have payed for. Where I bought it should not matter at all, as I paid for it fair and square.
Or how their VAC ban system works. It does do well to stop hackers and cheaters, but the system is full of policies which make for a very un-secure situation.
Like if you were to get hacked, and banned because of it, you would have to repurchase every game you owned cause they will be near worthless.
I understand how they need to go down on cheaters, but you should never ever do such things on the expenses of your paying and loyal customers.
I am sorry for ranting, but I am pissed and I hate valve for what they do and what they stand for. Which is funny cause under a year ago I liked them a lot and I bought almost everything they gave out.
A legit situation that would also be affected is if someone is living in Thailand, buys the game, and then moves to the US (college, returning ex-pat, whatever). What do they do? Certainly not buy another copy, that’s for sure. I never bought anything from Valve before, and with this announcement, I never will.
What? International software retailers don’t follow strict commercial guidelines? You don’t say.
Sucks for the people involved. Still the best game package out there this year.
I guess saving a few bucks can be expensive sometimes.
The situation is more complex than most people think. A few comments…
1. Some of the people commenting conflate “legal” and “right”. It so happens that something illegal can be right and something legal can be wrong. An example of the former is the American War of Independence which few American would consider wrong but any rational observer would find illegal. (I don’t know any state in which revolution is legal.) An example of the latter are “do not resuscitate” orders which are legal in some states but which some people find wrong on religious grounds. Actually these examples show that the criteria by which we judge things to be legal and those by which we judge things to be right are quite different. In my second example, for instance, legality is determined by the legal code and the fact that the situation is wrong is determined by people appealing to religious rules.
2. Is Valve right? I don’t think so. Companies want to be able to outsource and get their materials at the cheapest cost but do not want to allow customers the same benefits? I don’t think that’s right. In fact, the way the economy and the law is evolving, I think we are slowly returning to the servitude (servitude in the sense of “state of being a serf”) of the Middle Ages. Companies are finding arbitrary ways to make us shell out money to them as often as possible and the reasons they come up with are pretty arbitrary. Although the parameters are different, at it’s core, the situation is quite similar to a Lord imposing a tax on his serfs. The greatest tragedy arises when the serfs start thinking that the Lord’s arbitrary taxation is the natural way things should be.
3. Is Valve’s action legal? Possibly but there again there’s enough grey here that I would not want to judge prematurely the legality of Valve’s action. The argument that sellers “should have known better” is not very convincing in a civil case. Something more substantial has to be put forth.
4. Could Valve do things differently right now? Probably not. I’m aware I’m speculating here. However, it seems likely that Valve has contracts that spell out how it will carry on business with the EA and the retailers. For instance, there are probably clauses that prevent Valve from undercutting the retailers with Steam. There are probably also clauses that specify how the retailers are going to sell Valve’s products. We now know that Valve does not want their retailers to sell outside their assigned markets. The easiest way for them to enforce that rule when rogue retailers violate it is to revoke keys that have been sold outside their markets. I’m not saying this is the best way, just the easiest because it does not require legal action on their part. It is just an instance of the general strategy companies use to enforce their rules: they do not bring the customer to court or to arbitration right off the bat to get a ruling confirming their allegations, rather they act right away to their own benefit and hope that the customer won’t attempt legal action.
5. Who is to blame? The rogue retailers are the ones that have most responsibility in this because they did not stick to their agreement with Valve (or EA). They should fully reimburse all of their clients whom they knew were outside their assigned market. Valve has some part of blame because they created this mess in the first place. But I’m not convinced that they should reimburse anyone because ultimately the responsibility is the retailers’. However, Valve needs to consider how much their reputation is going to be tarnished if their customers are not satisfied.
6. Could Valve do things differently in the future? Yes, they need to rethink their distribution channels and the rules that govern those channels. It is hard for me to see what advantage there is to release their own titles both in cardboard boxes in stores and on Steam. I think Steam is the only way to go. Perhaps there are countries where there is a market for boxes but broadband penetration is not high enough for Steam to work. So maybe I’m missing something. However, I still think that if they had released the Orange Box only on Steam they could have avoided this mess.
Valve and Steam are both pieces of SH**. I bought HL2 the day it hit the shelves, anticipating the same great gaming experience I got with HL1. SURPRISE! It didn’t work because I couldn’t log on to the servers.
This is a point many people have made: If I require your servers to play my stand alone game, what happens when your servers don’t work?
Not to mention the fact that if you complained on the forums, they deleted the messages and banned you from posting. None of these problems are new, and they are the reasons that I will never knowingly buy another valve game, and I will never use their Steam(ing POS) distribution system.
Valve and Steam fanboys need not reply –I’ve heard it all before.
@crypticgeek:
“It’s like buying a product with a European electrical plug because it’s priced lower and then complaining that it won’t work in the US.”
No, it’s like buying a device with an American plug in Europe, then the manufacturer kicks down your door and takes it away from you after you’ve used it for a week.
How about they just make games that work without the internet.
If you’re importing games from Russia to save a few dollars, maybe you need to reconsider your purchasing habits…
I don’t feel much sympathy for the people who had their Russian games deactivated and had to get a refund (at least they got one), but I do feel sorry for the people who get screwed by customer service while trying to then buy a real local copy to fix the problem. That’s inexcusable.
So, I guess you could sum up my opinion as, I don’t feel sorry for the victims, but I am disappointed with Valve.
@guspaz: When you’re a student, saving $30 + $5 for gas is a pretty big deal, especially when it doesn’t take much effort.
Also, here’s a direct quote from steampowered.com:
“Play your games on any PC: Once you have a Steam account, you can sign in from any PC and access your games. Your games are associated with your account, not your computer.”
Any PC? That’s simply a lie any way you look at it. I know people throw the “false advertising” card around more than they should, but isn’t this pretty solid ground for legal action?
I got hosed by Bioshock’s online activation so these people have my sympathy. If this is the future of computer gaming, I’m taking my money elsewhere.
I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE Steam, but Portal looked so original and great that I wanted to support them by buying it, and I’m glad I did.
…however, this is the last time. They did not mention regional lockouts unless it’s in microscopic print in a corner somewhere. I read their whole TOS and agreed to it before opening the box. They are quite simply stealing from their paying customers, and in the event they make another game I want, (please don’t ban me for this,) I will download a cracked copy. If it is by the Portal team, I will get in touch with them personally and pay them directly, but I will not support Valve, Steam, or any of this Digital Rights Removal BS.
What valve has done is a violation of US Federal and State consumer protection laws.
Under the uniform commercial code, software is explicitly defined as a good. Not a service, not a leased work, and not a license. A good. Most people seem to think that the EULA and license agreements are some kind of bible and that everything they say is true and law. That couldn’t be further from the truth. An examination of case law in the US will show that courts have historically sided AGAINST EULAs and other forms of clickwrap and license agreements. And even if the court upheld a EULA, a contract is not a license to break the law. EVER.
Most EULAs are what are considered an unconscionable contract under the law. The negotiating power between the two parties in a EULA (the company and the customer) are disparate, EULAs tend to be one-sided, and they tend to be designed to exploit one party. The courts have frequently refused to enforce such contracts, as Linden Labs can attest to.
The customers in question have made a legal transaction to purchase a copy of The Orange Box. The law does not distinguish the fact that it was bought internationally when it comes to fraud. If the distributors are selling copies of The Orange Box to people in other countries, that is an issue between Valve in the distributor. It does not give them the right however, to steal money from people who have purchased that product.
And no, it isn’t the resellers obligation to give a refund, it’s Valve’s because it is Valve who disabled access to the good in the first place. This is the equivalent of stealing a good that a customer bought from their house.
My advice to the people who were scammed by Valve is two-fold :
1.Issue a chargeback on your credit/debit card.
2.File a complaint with the FTC and your Attorney General against Valve for fraudulent business practices.
Nice going Valve, punish your paying customers. This is going to cost you a few sales on this end for sure and most likely many more as this story continues to propagate the net.
Hope ya get sued over this.
Sincerely
An ex-customer.
Your Kids May Be Telling The Whole Internet Your Secrets Privacy is probably the most important thing you can teach your 12 year old right now.
@Phildawg:
TF2 actually is available alone for 30 dollars… through steam.
I’ve always wondered why people put trust in valve and their
steam. All I heard about steam was that it is
so hot that it “burned” the people.
However, maybe it’s time for people to look for free alternatives, there are tons of free and open games (also multiplayer games) out there, just a few of them. I eg. like Deliantra ( [www.deliantra.net] ).
The good thing about free games is that you don’t pay, and still get fun. And if it is not fun, you haven’t lost anything but
time. In case of free software games you can even participate
in creating and developing the game, which extends the lifetime of the fun even more.
Microsoft burned me enough years ago, I’ve been on Linux
ever since, and found enough games to waste my time there.
Sorry if this sounds like i’m a fan-boy for free software,
just want to point out that there are alternatives if you
are open minded.
It looks like Valve caved and the consumers won again. My and several others’ keys are working after applying a Steam update.
Likewise – my key is working again as well.
@Geekybiker:
Dude, you’re an idiot. Read an f’in economics textbook (supply, demand, price, quantity, hello?).
Man, I miss the days of 8-bit Nintendo when buying a game meant you owned it, and you could use 3rd party products with it, and firmware upgrades didn’t exist.
As long as people keep supporting steam it will continue to screw gamers over.
That’s why I don’t buy anything by Valve. Consumers can buy what they want, from wherever they want. I want to buy something from a foreign website, the manufacturer can’t tell me no. Not to mention how Steam sucks ass and rips off the people who purchase games there.
Hello REIJI
I just read that your cd-key is working fine. Could you please better explain what exactly did you do?
I got my boxed version on Saturday and tried to register but it failed
What’s worse it’s like 6 of us bought the game.
@guardian86: All I did was login to Steam. I got a popup window saying that Steam needed to restart to apply an update and then the games reappeared on my game list. It’s possible that they may have only reactivated the keys that were already registered.(?)
This is akin to the Students and Educators version of software, when you are clearly not. I temped at a place that did this and got a BSA audit. They certainly got their “cd keys” taken away. Complain to the original distributor in Thailand, not the seller or Valve. They are the ones who did something wrong here.
@StartingAces: The difference is that Student Licensed software actually TELLS you that it’s intended for student/teacher use on the box. Even the Thai retail box, much less the EULA, has no mention of it being only for use within Thailand.
Damn. I was hoping the pwnage would continue.
I appears that this is not the only problem steam causes to paying customers:
[www.allroundgeek.com]
[www.allroundgeek.com]
Hello i am from Holland.My son bought Saints Row 2 in a decent shop in my hometown and payed a decent 40 euro for it.After a few days we were told (not even asked) to pay 50 euro for the game…to steam. The support site is more a barrier than helpfull,with all its de-and commands.I did nothing illeagel and than they confiscate the game key,there is no way to contact directly about the problem.this smells like arrogance and thievery.Is there any solution coming up