There’s a bit of backlash going on against Southwest Airlines’ for changing their “family first” boarding policy. Previously, families traveling with children under 4 were allowed to board before the “a” group. Now they’ve been bumped back behind “a” but before “b” and “c.”
While Southwest claims that the new policy will help things move along faster— “accidentally” attracting more business travelers who are put off by having to give up the best seats to a gaggle of toddlers just might have something to do with change.
Now one parent is mad enough to start a blog called “Stop Southwest Airlines Family PreBoard Policy Changes” that aims to… well. You know.
From the blog:
Are you outraged with Southwest and their new revised family preboard policy in which parents and children under 4 no longer can board first?
!!! Then sign our online petition here – (you can do it anonymously) !!!
Are you a parent of a toddler who has had it with air travel?
We have.Do you know that Southwest changed their pre-board policy 10.02.2007 so that families with small children no longer pre-board but must wait until Group A has already boarded?
We call it A and a half boarding. We also call it outrageous and extremely short sighted for Southwest.
Southwest says they have no plans to revert back to the old policy.
Stop Southwest Airlines Family PreBoard Policy Changes
(Photo:busbeytheelder)
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It’s not a matter of hating children. It’s a matter of really disliking the parents of these children. A child doesn’t make you disabled, so why should be treated differently/specially?
I have no problem with the elderly and disabled getting on a plane before me. They have infirmities and require special help. A child is not a disease or disability.
@Buran: American loads the back first.
I’m not going to pass judgement until I have my own kids. If I speak now, I know I’ll be damned to have the loudest, most ADDHD kids in the universe. I suppose I’m more alarmed to see little yappy dogs on planes these days….
You know, I don’t fly that much, so maybe I just don’t notice – but you guys act like kids on a plane are the worst thing you’ve ever experienced. You’re bigger babies than the actual children you’re complaining about.
@Nemesis_Enforcer: we don’t detest “breeders” by any means. we detest ill-behaved children and the parents that allow it to go on and/or get all self-righteous about it when someone dares to speak up about it.
I am capable of always getting an “A” boarding pass. HOWEVER, if you travel with a lap baby, they need to make changes at the gate you’re relegated to a Group C most of the time.
If SW didn’t do that, I wouldn’t have much of a problem with this as I’d still be in A. That’ll learn those evil business travelers!
note: the whole issue isn’t really such a problem for me since we travel 3-4 times a yr tops. I just got sucked into trying to defend us “evil parents” who are screwing up all of your lives
@radleyas: A child is not a disease or disability. However, traveling with a 3 year old is more of a pain than traveling alone. Plus, when you give parents more time to settle in, their children are more likely to behave, making it less likely to piss YOU off. Now, parents don’t really need super duper special treatment, and boarding them between group A and B is exceptionally reasonable.
Just understand that giving parents a little extra time will make YOUR flight more enjoyable.
Next time you all fly, count the number of kids that are on the plane, and then at the end, count the number that were obnoxious. Most kids are ok. It is the few awful ones that spoil the rep of the rest. Perhaps we should be able to revoke jerky parents right to fly. Of course, then there’s the fat people argument again.
@JKinNYC:
Dunno about the fat people thing. I’ve never had a fat dude cry, scream, kick the back of my seat and then shit his pants. Then again, it would make for a great anecdote.
I have two kids and I see this as reasonable. People really take advantage of the pre-boarding and it amuses me to see a family of ten with one toddler have to preboard. If you can get a kid settled in a restaurant, you can get them settled in an airplane.
Was it more convenient for parents. Hell yeah!
Is it a necessity. No. This was a business decision that does not screw the customer. Vacation travelers usually spend less than business travelers so it makes sense for Southwest to try and get more business travelers.
It used to be that children sitting in an approved car seat had to be seated at a window seat. I have no doubt that policy hasn’t changed, because a car seat in an aisle seat can pose a real hazard in case of evacuation.
That said, the reason they allowed parents to preboard was to (a) not take up everyone else’s time futzing with the car seat; and in the case of Southwest, (b) to ensure that car seats end up at the window where they belong.
Now it’s a crapshoot with a plane already 1/3-loaded with people.
We flew SW this weekend – me, husband, 4-year-old, 11-month-old – from Seattle to Salt Lake City. And honestly, the new policy wasn’t awful. The gate agents made several announcements on how it would work, and no one seemed to have a problem. Since we weren’t trying to make connections, we took the kids all the way to the back of the plane and settled in quickly. Each of our kids started traveling by plane when they were under 3 months old, so they know the drill.
Personally, I’d rather sit near a crying baby than a whining adult. The baby can’t help it, but the adult should certainly know better.
The new policy prevents the “this child has five adults with them” problem I’ve seen time and again on Southwest. The gate attendants have fight a large family all trying to get into the plane before everyone else because of 1 kid.
SW’s boarding policy is mostly built on social pressure-enforced fairness. People get in line, social pressure prevents cutting, and it encourages people to be on time. Get there early and get a better seat. The small-children first policy created a loophole through which people could cheat without social pressure repercussions. The new policy prevents egregious cheating while still retaining the original goal of ensuring kids can sit with their parents.
@JKinNYC: I know some kids are angels whose parents have taught them appropriate behavior and can sit still for 5 minutes at a time.
I have also had to have a flight attendant intervene because a 5 year old was kicking my seat and the mom flipped out when i politely asked her to stop her child. See, his self actualization and self expression (or some other bs) is far more important than my seat not being kicked.
The flight attendant sided with me. Thanks United!
@radleyas: You’ve never had the privilege of one snore and fall asleep on you after already having their stomach flow onto your lap? Lucky you. You must not fly that much.
Someday I’ll tell the story about the 5’0 350lb woman who shit herself in the middle seat between me and my wife (Because she wouldn’t trade out). I’ll take a screaming toddler over that any day
southwest does have a small section in the front of their planes that have bigger nicer seats. instead of 3 seats in a row, their are only 2. of course it costs extra though, and as i walked passed it, it didn’t impress me enough to pay any more for it. a small curtain to obscure the view of the people behind you and more room is all you get.
@baa: You know my kid (the former).
On the latter, I’m on your side. I actually told a woman on a 12-hour flight to Israel that she was the reason people hate kids on planes. She started to answer but then shut up. (My 2 year old was fast asleep on his mom at the time).
i’ve only flown to and from las vegas(and probably never fly anywhere else unless its further west than that, i prefer to drive.) luckily not very many people bring their kids there so, i’ve never had a screaming child on my flights.
@JKinNYC:
I used to fly weekly for about 2 years. I’ve never had any problems with overweight people. Never,
Yes, I’ve had someone fall asleep on my shoulder. I simply woke them and asked them to stay in their own seat.
As for a screaming toddler, I had one of those about ever other flight. Generally, there is no recourse. You can complain to a flight attendant, but very little gets done.
@JKinNYC: Now that sounds like a good story. Do tell.
They aren’t even taking away the pre-boarding completely, just moving the parents with children back 1 step (to “A and a half”)
It looks like there are a number of comments on the guys site who are disagreeing with him already. eh, I’ve got a newborn and we’ll just check in at the 24 hour window and be fine.
I agree with the many others, A & 1/2 seating would work fine for me (3 kids: 10, 5, and 3). I don’t see the problem. You need to get them settled early and seated together but you don’t need a free ride.
I disagree with those who project their hatred of children upon others in public places.
@Buran: I can’t believe I’m about to agree with you. I guess there’s a first for everything!
I love the majority of parents who are like “oh, MY child doesn’t act up in public.” Oh really? Are you positive? Are you SURE? Because last time I checked, most parents are so out of it they wouldn’t be able to tell if their kid was abducted by an alien.
If you have children, and you need the “extra time” to “settle down” your little tyke, then how about you quit your complaining and try another airline that assigns you a seat. Just because you’ve reproduced doesn’t entitle you to extra anything, especially if it comes at the sacrifice of an entire plane-load of other people.
“Waaaaaaaaaah!” Wait, was that a crying baby, or a whining parent?
@radleyas: You are very very lucky then. Perhaps it was the route you were flying
.
As for a crying toddler on every flight, consider what portion of the children are crying, one bad seed anywhere on the plane, and it hits your list. Even if there are 12 other well behaved children. You have to be (un)lucky enough to wind up right next to a biggun to have to feel that.
Very little gets done with a screaming toddler because in many cases there’s nothing you CAN do. Ask your parents if you were ever inconsolable. Especially littler kids who may be suffering because of the pressure changes and are too small to understand. Don’t be so sure the parents aren’t trying to do something.
Southwest can enact whatever policies they wish, no one forces you to use them. I found that the one time we flew with my son at 6 mos. it was convenient that we could get into a seat and get all the extra gear that accompanies a baby situated without putting my ass in everyone’s face as I move things around into the already compacted spaces available. But hey, I suppose now I have an excuse when someone complains. I’ll simply turn around and mention that had I boarded before them I would have been seated and that my ass would not have been in their face while I try to get everything situated before the next horde runs on board.
Every flight I’ve been on has annoying children and just as annoying adults. I’ve flown where the guy in front of me who probably came in at just under 500lbs kept shifting the seat and even without reclining the seat it was bending so far back as to hit my knees. So, there’s your obligatory fat person reference.
I will say that if you are not going to make accommodations to people with special needs then don’t make them for anyone. Yea, I mean handicapped people as well. I’ve seen enough people fake a “handicap” to get preferential treatment so I suppose that qualifies just as much as those people with the 4 foot 4 year olds.
Look, as a business traveler you have your choice of airlines to fly. If Southwest’s policy was so encumbering to you then why did you keep on flying Southwest? Why didn’t you switch to someone who better accepted your.. oh wait.. not YOUR money, your company’s money.
@JKinNYC:
Not every flight. As I said, about every other flight. Not all of them are kicking my seat, but several seem to feel the need to scream/shout.
As for my own behavior as a kid, I’d be happy to share. Yeah, I was a pain in the ass. However, my parents did not fly with me. I did not go on a plane until I was 8 years old. In other situations, such as restaurants and stores, if I began to cry, my parents left the store/restaurant.
Believe me, I have heard many tales of my parents leaving restaurants hungry because I was crying. But my parents did what they did out of respect for others. They didn’t expect others to deal with me or co-parent me.
As the parent of an 8 year old who flew SW a lot when the kid was young I heartily support the old policy of kids first. It helped immensely to have a couple of extra minutes to get onto the plane and get settled and be able to sit together. The SW cattle call is stressful in the best of situations. I love SW but I hate the seating.
If the child is under, say, a year old, I can see letting them get on first. Its hard to keep a grip on a squirming infant, navigate down narrow aisles and into narrower seats trying to haul a diaper bag too. It would be nice to have a “kids only” section, if not “child-free” flights…. only thing to do is tune out with earplugs or an ipod…
I’ve seen a lot of women traveling alone with a couple of kids. I always offer to help. Recently, I helped a young woman who was traveling along b/c her husband was in Iraq. She was taking the kids to see grandparents for the holidays. She said that normally they would drive but she didn’t want to try that alone with the kids.
Southwest should change the policy back to how it was. If people are so mean that they think they have to get on the plane ahead of a couple of kids, then they should just walk.
@Nemesis_Enforcer: “I Mean I know a lot of lesbians and gays who detest “breeders.”
You do? I’m gay and I’ve never met any. In fact most of my gay friends *have* children. I always assumed that the “gays hate breeders,” myth was a really vile made-up stereotype promoted by the folks who don’t care for us, like, “Hide your kids! Gays hate them and oh yeah, they recruit!”
Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I don’t have kids, but I’ve never been bothered by flying with them. In my experience adults are far more obnoxious. From the overweight people who insist on putting up the arm rest so they can spill into my seat, to the businessman who crammed his carry-on under the seat in front of him and proceeded to stretch his legs out under the seat in front of me, adults are far more annoying.
I think there should be pre-boarding offered to anyone who needs it for legitimate reasons, like the elderly or disabled or people with infants. But it sounds like the cheaters (a pack of five adults rushing to get on first with a token child) ruined it for everyone else.
Ah parents with entitlement issues. Here is a hint- its a kid, not cancer. The world doesn’t revolve around you and your groinfruit. A child isn’t a handicap and you do not deserve special treatment. I suggest you fly USAIR (let the punishment fit the crime).
For every whiny self-absorbed breeder they lose, they will gain 3-4 business travelers or regular flyers.
Yeesh.
It’s simple really. These parents need to lighten up for one and print out their boarding passes at home as early as possible. Then just get to the airport early. They are then, more than likely in the A group and never have to worry about stuff like this. It’s insane, and they are acting like spoiled children. I have been a loyal Southwest customer and will remain one.
Kids don’t bother me as much as the jerk in front of me who as soon as we’re in the air slams his seat back as far as it will go.
I fly quite often (unfortunately) and I’ve never seen a happy community of parents and kids all sitting in one spot together after pre-boarding. Can anyone other than the “petitioner” back this up? Maybe because I don’t fly to Orlando…
That said, I don’t care if they got to pre-board because at least when boarding after I could spot potential “problems” (not all, just the fussier ones) and select a seat far enough away from them.
Is it ever possible to move beyond: “So don’t fly.” “Fat people suck.” “Old people suck.” “Indulgent parents suck.” “It’s my right to have kids.” “I don’t care how my kids act.” “Quit whining.” Is that all there is?
@radleyas: I beg to differ. Children are a disease. A disease that the majority of us have to deal with at one point or another whether it be a new strain that we unleash upon humanity or a previous form of the disease we inherit from someone else.
On the subject though, I can’t say that I fully agree with this new policy. Yes, I understand why. But let’s face the facts here. You can’t say that a parent with two four year old twins and a one-month old baby doesn’t take a little longer to get seated and settled in than say, a single adult. They do and in my opinion, they should be allowed to board first along with those who have disabilities.
I’m sorry for those of you who feel inconvenienced by having to wait in line a little longer or have to listen to a baby cry for a little while. I got news for you. You, yes you, did the exact same thing. Hell, you were probably worse. It’s a necessary evil. So instead of complaining, be patient. Deal with it like an adult.
This is not to say that parents should not control their children. By all means, strap the little devils into their seats, gag them, duct tape their mouths shut, and go on about your day. Call it ‘tough love’ if you must. At the end of the day though, a mother and her children take longer to board and settle in than adults do. This new policy won’t make the plane move faster. You won’t get to your destination any quicker. All it does is make it so some people can sit down in a seat that people have probably farted in thousands of times. Enjoy. =)
Nice to see he understands other’s point of view, but is apparently unwilling to allow them to express it. Comments are closed.
A moment of reason in this discussion, having a problem with a “parents first” policy does not make you anti-breeder, anti-parent, or anti-kid. It just means that you don’t have a problem with parents boarding second instead of first.
Also as one of “the gays” I can say that gay distaste for straights is no more prevalent than straight distaste for gays, probably less so.
@hollerhither:
Is it ever possible to move beyond: “So don’t fly.” “Fat people suck.” “Old people suck.” “Indulgent parents suck.” “It’s my right to have kids.” “I don’t care how my kids act.” “Quit whining.” Is that all there is?
Well, there are always teenagers. No one likes them
@Electoral College Dropout: I’d also add, that among the anti-breeders I’ve met, far more of them are straight.
@radleyas: Pimply freaks.
As a kid, my dad taught me the following about traveling by plane: pack light, get there early, board quickly. I follow that advice to this day when I’m flying. If parents would do the same thing, there would be no need for them to complain about not getting to board first — They’d be in the A group and settled before the B group even got called.
@speedwell: Well if I am such a entitlement monster than why is it that I am disabeled because of multiple knee surgeries, yet I refuse to get a handicaped placard or sign? I leave it for the people who really can’t get around. Or the dumbasses who park there when they are not disabeled at all.
I am not claiming its a right to get on early. I am saying give it a break if someone needs a few extra minutes whats worse. You sitting in the boarding area or having to stand in the aisle behind that person while they get thier kids and or disabeled butt in the seat?
Why is it that these parents think they are ENTITLED to board first? Of course you are not! The sheer fact that you are getting a pretty favorable boarding position without doing anything but breeding is charity enough already.
It isn’t hard to go to Southwest.com 24 hours before boarding and check in online. Guess what, you’ll get an A boarding pass then.
STOP WHINING
Rambunctious, crying, poorly-behaved kids I can handle. The adult sitting next to me who won’t STFU is the person who drives me insane.
@radleyas:
I also forgot “sluts with short skirts shouldn’t fly” and “I can wear what I want” and “smelly people suck.” Actually, I do support good hygiene, so…
i rather liked it when the kids would board first as lets me avoid them when it’s finally my turn to get on the plane.
i only ask that they get off the plane last, as they are usually the ones who hold up the exit process with all of the extra baggage that they bring aboard.
however it’s those schmuck families that abuse the system that piss me off. come on. 12 people traveling together… and only 1 toddler??? come on now.
That online petition was f—ing delicious!
Seriously though, this doesn’t sound like that big of a deal. If you can still get in Group A by filling out a form online is there really a problem here?
@hollerhither:
I’m hugely pro good hygiene. I’ve been on the subway enough to have lived with other peoples pit stink. Foul!!
I don’t like this policy. I like it when parents and their damn kids pick their seats first, so when I get on I can choose to sit as far as possible from them.
The only other option would be for parents and kids to sit in designated areas at the front or back, so people like me who don’t like whining kids and crying babies can be far away.