This story just keeps getting sadder. Carol Anne Gotbaum, the passenger who got into a screaming match with US Airways gate attendants and later died in a holding cell after being arrested, was on her way to an alcohol treatment center in Tucson to seek help. She was also the stepdaughter-in-law of New York City Public Advocate Betsy Gotbaum.
The public advocate has released a statement, according to the NYT:
Saying it appeared that her stepdaughter-in-law had been “manhandled” by police officers before her death in police custody in Phoenix on Friday, New York City’s public advocate, Betsy Gotbaum, called yesterday for an investigation into the circumstances of the death.
…
“The family has not reached a conclusion as to whether her care and treatment were inappropriate, but the circumstances were highly unusual,” Mr. Manning [lawyer] said. “This woman — who was 5 foot 7, less than 110 pounds — was without doubt emotionally disturbed, and at this stage the family understands why the Phoenix Police Department intervened, but it’s what happened after the intervention that causes us concern.”
…
“We are not jumping to any conclusions, but the circumstances surrounding Carol’s death appear to be unusual enough to raise serious questions and warrant a thorough investigation,” [Betsy Gotbaum] said. “She cried out for help at the airport, but her pleas appear to have been met by mistreatment.”
Previous reports have described Gotbaum as screaming, “I’m not a terrorist! I’m a sick mom! I need help!”
NYC Public Advocate’s Relative Who Died at Airport Was Heading to Rehab [Fox News]
Gotbaum Seeks Investigation Into Death [NYT]
Family seeks answers in airport death [Arizona Republic]
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@Leiterfluid:
Standard operating procedure in arrests involve keeping the perp cuffed at all times until they are placed in a proper jail.
That’s why she was still cuffed. She was in a detention center, not a jail.
$5 says her step-father-in-law had her put out.
I am (not) surprised at the relatively-high level of sympathy for the woman who died. She fits the profile that most (here) would find sympathetic.
Now if some of you could keep even the tiniest bit of that concern about ‘excessive police action’ for people who don’t meet her demographic?
For the record, it is sad that she died. But I wonder about a group of people who are willing to place blame on the police involved without any real evidence of any wrongdoing what so ever.
It’s curious to me that when people point out errors in judgment on behalf of the person they label the ‘victim’, they are accused of victim bashing.
Curious indeed.
Makes me wonder if folks here care about the truth or just come here to bash.
if she’s a hardcore alcoholic as described, she could have went into DT’s (delerium tremens better known as alcohol withdrawal) and that could have easily done her in.
there’s not necessarily any abuse or foul play going on here.
Sounds like it may just be a sad case of police procedure meeting with a very sick woman and producing a sad result. Sometimes, procedure is written without careful regard to mentally/physically ill or otherwise non-normal adults, and that can lead to tragedies like this one. She may not even have been well enough/clear-headed enough to make it known that she shouldn’t have been unsupervised.
While perhaps litigation for negligence wouldn’t be a surprising outcome, I don’t think we need to lay the blame at anyone’s feet right now. There will be an investigation, and wrongdoing will be decided, but it is good to be aware of the fact that if you know someone traveling who is ill or otherwise incapable of traveling in a “normal” manner, it may be a good idea to make sure they are accompanied. I’m sure this woman has loved ones who regret that she was alone. I know if I ever have a loved one in the same situation, I will be careful now, after reading about this, to see that they have someone there to protect/control them.
@Flynn: That kind of talk, will get you tased.
@Falconfire: right on. no cuffs in the holding cell (at least from my experience….er, did i say that?)
I’m waiting for the results of a real investigation and I too would like to hear some more eyewitness accounts.
I’m glad this family isn’t my support network – no way in hell she should have been traveling alone. Maybe they can seek some of their answers there.
It’s just amazing, the rush to blame here. Let’s stick to what we really know, hmm?
Gotbaum: flipped out because she missed the flight by that much. Maybe, as Ben suggests, she was drunk, maybe she was DTing, maybe she was afraid that if she didn’t get into rehab right away that she’d head straight for the airport bar. Maybe she was just obnoxious and self-entitled. Maybe she’d worked herself up into a berserker rage and was fully capable of hurting cops more than twice her size. We don’t know, yet.
Police: stuck her in a cell where she was handcuffed to a bench with a long chain involved somehow. Maybe they did it because they thought she was in danger of hurting herself and that’s all they had in the way of restraints, even though she ended up hurting herself anyway. Maybe they’re incompetent; maybe they hurt her and this is how they covered it up. We don’t know, yet.
What we do know: A woman is dead. Dead woman’s family, very influential, are looking into it. And many of you are pretty quick to find someone to blame for it without knowing much about the situation.
@Stan LS:
“Victom of what?”
At the very least victim of an accident (maybe something more??).
And yes we are barking away at this column and speculating… that’s the point… share/discuss information, viewpoints, etc.
for the “facts” to be fed to them then all I have to say is STFU and wait. Don’t tell us to stop using our brains and/or suppress our common sense till we get a nice story that ties up all the loose end all nicely.
No one is passing a judgement here… just their opinions, best guesses… so all those who want to wait (FEJJNAGAF
@CONSUMERIST MODERATOR – ACAMBRAS : Thanks for putting a brake on victim bashing.
This a sad and tragic but that is all. No investigation needs to be done. Bury your loved one and move on. Sad things happen everyday, they are called accidents and we move along with our lives. Dwelling on this only makes the living feel worse.
Reports I heard said that the police claim she died by strangling herself in the cell while she was handcuffed behind her back.
As far as I know, the actual physics involved in being able to strangle yourself while handcuffed behind your back, cannot occur in this quadrant of the Universe.
@pshah:
No, you’re right.
Much better to pretend we know the story, admonish the police and label the person who died the ‘victim’. Then we can pass judgment on each other for passing judgment on the story.
Your way is better.
I blame the children.
It’s always their fault!
What I don’t get is how you can say it is okay for us to speculate and lay blame and then a sentence later thank the moderator for stopping the victim bashing…
What if this woman TRIED to kill herself? Wouldn’t that make the police the victim?
I think it might. So YOUR way ends up victim bashing….
I’m sorry the woman died too, but I don’t want or need to be ‘fed’ anything – I want the truth. And we aren’t likely to get it by jumping to conclusions and making assumptions. As a matter of fact, isn’t that what happenend in the Duke Lacross team rape trial? Why yes, it is. People got one side of the story and jumped to their own conclusions, unwilling or unable to wait for the results of the investigation.
But I wonder about a group of people who are willing to place blame on the police involved without any real evidence of any wrongdoing what so ever.
@fejjnagaf: But we do know that they left her alone in the holding cell. No one was watching her, not even on camera (there was no camera).
Don’t you have to watch people that you’ve detained?
What if this woman TRIED to kill herself? Wouldn’t that make the police the victim?
@fejjnagaf: No, that makes her loved ones the victims.
@CoffeeAddict:
[en.wikipedia.org]
“Another common method of escaping (or attempting to escape) from being handcuffed behind the back, is that one would, from a sitting or lying position, bring one’s legs up as high upon one’s torso as possible, then push one’s arms down to bring the handcuffs below one’s feet, finally pulling the handcuffs up using one’s arms to the front of one’s body.”
Not only is it possible, it happens from time to time.
From news stories:
“Gotbaum was discovered with her arms raised and her handcuffs “pressed up against her neck area,” adding that it’s not unusual for people in wrist shackles at the back to maneuver their hands around to the front.”
Sounds reasonable….
Still waiting for the autopsy report.
@Rectilinear Propagation:
Nope.
You sure don’t. As a matter of fact, per the procedure in Arizona, they routinely check on detainees. There is no reason to watch people who have been detained.
@Rectilinear Propagation:
Well, no one is bashing the ladies family (yet).
But insinuating police misconduct when none appears to have occured makes the victim the police…. Sort of.
@frogman31680: 3- The airline is negligent in my eyes IF THEY LEFT HER ALONE IN THERE. If you are detaining a person, for whatever reason, you should be responsible for them. Even if she tries to commit suicide, there should have been someone there to try to stop her.
The airline? They didn’t detain her. Public servants in the employ of the city of Phoenix detained her. It was the Phoenix Police Department who acted negligently and who should pay the consequences of their actions.
Manslaughter, Negligent Homicide, one of these is the charge the prosecutor should be actively pursuing.
FYI, this just in thanks to Slate. It’s totally possible to choke yourself out trying this maneuver….
[www.slate.com]
@SeattleGuy: LOL. Right, victim bashing is bad, but calling cops murderers is ok I guess. If the cops keps her in cuffs to prevent her from hurting herself (a common procedure in detention facilities pre-prison) and she manages to hurt herself still how is that their fault.
Ill give an example. In the old Vet stadium there was a jail underneath the stands for unruly fans. One game a friend of mine jumped out onto the field, and was arrested. He was cuffed to a bench in the holding cell until after the game, when he was released. We went to get him and there were 8-10 drunks in similar position. The officers didnt need to watch them, they just let them sit there until they calmed down, checking on them periodically. My guess is the airport “jail” is a similar set up, and keep people cuffed to make them more manageable
@pshah:
“Don’t tell us to stop using our brains and/or suppress our common sense..”
Common sense? Due to the lack of facts, more like imagination. Imagine away, then. Maybe aliens got her.
Same old story if someone has an obvious physical injury the police summon medical help. Someone with a possibly mental problem, they shackle them and haul them off to a cell and dump them. Did they even consider for one moment that this women might have a serious emotional problem and summon medical assistance? Obviously not.
Almost sounds like she has the same travel agent as Ron White. Got booked on a flight from Flagstaff to Phoenix. I don’t know, but it seems like you could hire a private car cheaper than fly within Arizona.
“Know who I feel bad for? Who I think the victim is? The poor bastard 60k a year cop that just wanted to go home to his family and who BY ALL ACCOUNTS FOLLOWED PROTOCOL but now has to deal with this for the rest of his life. Of course, no one can dare”
100% agreed
Let’s see, we have a beligerant woman at the airport on her way to REHAB (which suggests previous issues huh?).
And we have an airport cop trying to maintain the peace.
That is all I need to say.
Ugh, this reminds me way too much of something that happened in Chicago last year. A 20-something year old woman was traveling through Midway airport to get home to CA because she was bipolar, had gone off her meds, and her parents had arranged to get her home to get back in treatment for it. She had a freak out at the airport, and instead of taking her to the hospital, the cops jailed her for disturbing the peace or some such nonsense.
Her parents somehow found out she’d been taken to the closest police station, and they kept calling there to explain the situation to the cops, and ask them to either not release her until they got to Chicago on whatever the next available flight was, or take her to a mental hospital. The cops blew them off, and the parents kept calling and trying to get someone to listen to them.
The cops promptly released her right by the police station into one of the worst neighborhoods in the city– she was also completely disoriented and incoherent. Within an hour, she was grabbed by some scummy drug dealer who took her up to his 5th floor apt in the projects, raped her a few times, and then either shoved her out the window or she jumped.
She now is basically a vegetable due to the head injuries, and her parents are suing the Chicago PD.
Oooops – I was right – looks like it was more than booze:
From todays NY Post:
“On Nov. 1, 2006, authorities said, NYPD officers were called to Carol and Noah Gotbaum’s Upper West Side town house to assist a 44-year-old woman who had attempted suicide by taking pills.
Then, in the past three or four weeks, Carol tried to kill herself in an unknown manner and was taken to Roosevelt Hospital, sources said.”
But again, you go on with your bad cognitively dissonant selves.
The following is based on perception:
The police have a job to protect the public. If an individual is deemed to be threatening this status, they should be removed. It is not the job of the police at this point to psycho analyze this person until after they have been removed from a situation of concern.
I am still stunned that a few of you seem to think that prior to restraining someone the police should make some sort of ‘call’ w/r/t the mental condition of the perp.
Also, comparing this to the Chicago story…again, when someone is freaking out at an airport, the police should not have to analyze someone prior to moving them into custody. They must remove them to prevent issues with the general public. Now if the facts of your story are true, my support of the actions of the Chicago police ends there but I still do not see how police should make a judgment call as to someone’s mental condition prior to removing them from a situation to a safer locale (the holding tank)?
@formergr: Could you provide a link to this story? Thank you.
@OKH:
[en.wikipedia.org]
Until reading your comment, I’d never seen someone report a suicide attempt so smugly and gleefully.
She should have just shown her receipt!
@Javert:You are right, it is the cop’s job to remove someone who could possibly harm themself or others. But that doesn’t mean that their job and responsibility ends there.
You mentioned it and I think it should be pointed out that she was in policy custody. The police are therefore responsible for both her well-being and that of those around her. It doesn’t mean they get to lock a suspect up and throw away the key.
@Consumerist Moderator – ACAMBRAS:
More ‘moderation’ or what?
I am aware that I am risking my consumerist.com account posting priveledges, but shouldn’t you be avoiding insulting other people over your personal perceptions?
This is the second time I’ve seen you post something like this. The first was to thank people who had been blaming the police instead of the ‘victim’ and now it’s to tell someone that their benign reporting of fact was smug and gleeful.
Granted, your job is to moderate, but don’t you think you should be more careful about your own wording, lest you risk insulting faithful consumerist readers?
All he did was provide factual detail. Now, as a moderator, you are passing judgment on his intent?
How about instead of passing judgment on what was brought to the table (which, by the way, was pertinent and not smug or gleeful) and moderate the forum when people make ridiculous statements about ‘victim bashing’. The point of his post was to bring new information to the table. Nothing he said was disruptive, incorrect, or accusatory.
It’s pretty clear he was directing his comment towards the people around here who
just saying.
please don’t kill my account over this.
Thanks.
@OKH:
One of the common cases where police is not the “victim” [www.officer.com]
@Javert
They must remove them to prevent issues with the general public but the police shouldn’t use their best judgement? So just because of the inability of the police to assess the situation some mentally challenged person gets thrown in jail? Whats next? Handicapped person thrown in jail cause he/she can’t stand up to get searched by airport security?
Get your head examined… its “To Protect And Serve”
She wasn’t hurting anyone was she??
@fejjnagaf:
“I am aware that I am risking my consumerist.com account posting priveledges, but shouldn’t you be avoiding insulting other people over your personal perceptions?”
What about you bashing the victim, insulting others whose viewpoint differs from you… if you want to wait for “facts” go ahead… you can’t dictate everyone to stop expressing their viewpoint… also since you want to reserve judgement till the autopsy why bash the victim before that fact is known to you???
Let me put this as politely as possible,
Consumerist would be better off without the likes of you… the overbearing poster trying to force his sick viewpoint on everyone.
@fejjnagaf:
I certainly would not consider your disagreement with me (or with my style) grounds for “killing” your account — I neither want nor need to abuse power in that way.
But I do disagree with your assessment. Before I responded to OKH, I did check out his/her comment history, including comments made on the previous related post. If you check out his/her comment history, you’ll see why I came to the conclusion I did.
The mentally ill often “self-medicate” with illegal drugs and/or alcohol.
@pshah:
Well, first off – I’m not moderator. If I was, I would have booted you a long time ago for picking fights, insulting people you disagree with repeatedly, and saying things like waiting for the facts to come out is silly.
Please tell me what is ‘sick’ about my viewpoint? Is it that I don’t think we should all jump to conclusions and refrain from implying that the police involved are murderers, especially when there is nothing that even comes close to implying that to be true?
Because that’s all you’ve done since you started spouting your invectives.
Please tell me when I ‘bashed’ the victim as well. Because I am curious why you continue to assault me and my opinions when yours are based squarely in your overactive imagination.
Was I bashing the victim when I said that being late doesn’t excuse bad behavior? Maybe it was when I said that being late for a flight is always the fault of the person who was late – that it is preventable and avoidable? Was I victim bashing when I asked you to stop accusing the police of murder? Perhaps I was being overbearing when I related a personal story to illustrate my point about avoidable failure.
Who knows.
Here’s what I know – people like you don’t like to wait for the truth to come out. People like you like to spout off and make baseless accusations. People like you aren’t interested in truth, just fiction. People like you try to shut up people around them that disagree with them.
People like you pretend to care about expression, yet will tell others who freely express themselves that they are bad people for speaking their own minds.
As others have pointed out to you before, you are a hypocrite. You tell me I can’t make my opinion heard while telling me that I shouldn’t tell you that your imagined, meritless position are pure speculation.
Others have said it to you before and it’s too bad that you aren’t interested in listening:
You are speculating. That’s all you are doing. When other people put in the effort to get the actual information, you accuse them of wanting to be ‘fed’ the news.
You are ridiculous.
@pshah:
One more thing – how do you know she was mentally challenged?
That seems like an awful thing to say about someone who was about to enter detox.
What is your source for this?
And what on god’s green earth does the link you provided have anything to do with the price of tea in china?
Are you seriously trying to link a case where police picked someone up on prostitution charges, then dropped the charges to this case?
Yeah. Cops are people. they make mistakes. Nobody is perfect.
But why is it that you think the two cases are at all related?
And in that post, you again take it too far by telling a reader to ‘get your head examined’.
Is that necessary?
THAT’S exactly what this site DOESN’T need – people who insult other people because they can’t make their point any other way.
It’s one thing to point out how stupid and nonsensical someone else’s point is. It’s entirely another to tell someone to ‘get your head examined’….
Insulting for insultings sake are we?
@Consumerist Moderator – ACAMBRAS:
I like your style, I’m just curious about the moderation around here when people like PSHAH are given free reign to make others feel uncomfortable expressing their opinions. Here is a poster who has repeatedly attacked others personally with no rebuke from the mods, yet OKH makes what appears to be a benign statement of fact, followed by a snarky comment about the poor attitudes of some who wish to convict the police on no evidence gets a firm how do you do….
It’s really not a personal thing with you, I just wonder if there could be a way to stop the ridiculous posters from making and taking everything so personally. The other day, I said something about waiting for more information before we all decide the cops are guilty, and PSHAH spent multiple posts directly attacking my integrity, including calling my viewpoint “sick”.
@pshah:
@fejjnagaf:
The “dialogue” between you two has gotten away from a discussion of the post and has become quite a multi-post flame war. Please knock it off and stick to the topic(s), or I’ll have to submit an expense report to Gawker for Excedrin reimbursements.
@Consumerist Moderator – ACAMBRAS:
THAT is funny.
I’ll buy the excedrin.
@Javert: Here’s a link to one of many Chicago Tribune articles on the woman’s fall that I posted about after she was released by Chicago PD:
[tinyurl.com]
If link doesn’t work, just Google Christina Eilman.
I have worked at Sky Harbor for over 17 years. I have little or no faith in the City of Phoenix Aviation. In September of this year, we discontinued medical/disabled parking for employees, does that tell you anything about how they treat people? It took over 2 years of the employees complaining about the checkpoints not screening our fellow workers in the early morning hours. These are just two examples of how much compassion and helpfulness we have for people here at Sky Harbor. One must wonder if the tapes in the area of door #27 in the area of the Police Room will be turned over to the family of the dead passenger. I hope they do sue, then maybe this will bring about some positive changes to the airport. Until changes are made, they don’t deserve another Super Bowl! It starts from the Director down, right thru all of these Supervisors who answer a question with a question. Just my views of another tragic event at the airport.