You say federal government above, and I don't believe that is true. I think the stings are more of a local and state government thing. The rules and enforcement come from that level with just some higher level laws coming from the federal level. I doubt a convenience store clerk gets busted by the ATF. More likely it's the local sheriff's department working with another local or state agency.

When I worked a summer at a convenience store, I was aware there might be undercover kids trying to get me busted, but I wasn't paranoid about it. I carded about 30 and under.

I feel bad about it now, but at the time, I actually liked denying folks their beer or cigs if they forgot their ID. Customers pissed me off all day, and that was a way I could get them back without getting myself in trouble. They knew technically it was the law, so they getting a manager wouldn't help. They'd bitch at me, I'd bitch back, and feel better.

Funny thing was, this was a gas station kind of in the middle of nowhere; 99% of the customers had to drive to get there. Why are you driving without your license anyway?

I'm a changed man, now, of course. Having spent more time on the customer end of customer service, I would have been much more polite than I was.

@bnet41:
Yeah, I think you're right. I think the states set the smoking and drinking age. Congress forced the drinking age by tying federal highway funding into it (if your state's age is under 21, you get no money). But, I think technically the states still have the right to make a 15 year old drinking age if they want.

Ok - they need to ID everyone for buying alcohol. Fine. BUT - can they ID you if you're buying a non-alcohol product in a liquor store? The liquor store closest to us has started carding for every purchase - even if we're only buying tonic water. They've also recently posted a banner stating that you must be 21 to make ANY purchase.

This is beyond annoying. We used to shop here almost exclusively due to the convenience of the location, but now we go out of our way to shop elsewhere. carding for alcohol is the law, but carding for tonic water is an invasion of privacy.

Obviously I think they shouldn't be doing this. My question is: Can they legally do this?

It's not just liquor stores, convenience stores, and grocery stores that have to ask for ID from everyone wanting something like that. I've got a post up on my website, RagingServer.com (warning, can be offensive) on the reasons that we as restaurant servers have to card people. Basically, we can not only be fired, fined, and kept from working in another restaurant that serves alcohol, but the company can also be fined for it, and sometimes those fines are up there.

Just make sure you bring your passport if you are buying liquor with an out-of-state license in Mass. Technically, they can only use Mass. drivers license, Mass. liquor ID (special ID that anyone living in state can get) and passport. Even Mass. ID (non-liquor) technically isn't the right ID. Really great for the tourists.

And I think they can also accept military ID.

In Idaho, retailers ask cashiers to card EVERYONE. Grandma or great grandma get carded. A good cashier can usually charm their way through it. And it's a good thing I could, I was setup for a sting by a couple of young undercover cops.

I work for in a State ATD Law Enforcement office as a secretary to the agents here.
The state government always fines the licensee of a business, while locals will fine/arrest the actual cashier who sold the tobacco or alcohol to an underage person. Often the state and locals will work together on an operation, but sometimes the states do their own thing and locals do their own thing.

There is a certain point when carding someone who is obviously over 21 is not even a compliment any more but simply ridiculous. That point came when I was in a liquor store a while back and a poor old man who could barely walk or move at all tried to buy himself some vodka. He had to have been at least 80 years old but the cashier made him pull out his id, much to the dismay of everyone in the fairly large line that had already formed behind him because he was moving so slowly. The poor guy looked like he wanted to start crying as he worked to fish his id out of his pocket at length with his hands shaking terribly from arthritis. He looked so embarrassed. How pathetic is our society when people aren't even allowed to exercise even the tiny amount of discretion that would have prevented this situation and others like it from happening?

The thing I don't get is how hard is it to show your ID? I have two different views on this. The first was when the police department in my university town actually disguised people to bust retailers for selling to minors. Second, I was a waiter at a Chilis and you know what? I cannot judge a person's age. It should not be in my hands to decide who gets carded and who does not. Sure you can provide extreme examples of a 75 year old person, fine but how hard is it to show your ID (I am repeating myself, sorry).

@RandomHookup: From my prior experience at the Fleet Shawmut Garden, they will take an out of state ID if you have a second ID. Of course the person behind the register was annoyed with the rule and accepted my library card as a second ID. But I have been to other venues where they absolutely would not accept an out of state DL. Boy, were the Rhode Islanders mad. My question is, assuming that the out of state DL is a legal document, does this not in some way violate the full faith and credit clause?

Wow, until you mentioned this, I had totally forgotten about it. Welcome to the People's Republic of Massachusetts.

How about they just stop wasting time on kids buying smokes and worry about real criminals? Oh, because there's no money in it.

I worked at a gas station in Wisconsin when I was a teenager, and at the time, the rule was that if you looked under 27 for cigarettes or under 30 for booze, then you got carded. I never carded an oldster, and the law had my back on it.

On the flip side, as soon as I turned 18, I was sent out as a secret shopper to see if other stores in the chain would card me (and also to spy on their cleanliness and the like). I got a manager a two-day suspension! Good times.

I've got to say thanks to the Consumerist for bringing to light the other side of the counter.

I used to like to card 30 something women when I worked the door at a local joint. Occasionally one was grateful...

@lawnmowerdeth: I agree with you 100%. With all the problems in this country, why in the world are we worrying about this one? When did it become the government's job to raise people's kids anyway?

I work at a college campus convenience store. Our management tells us we don't have to (and shouldn't) card for cigarettes unless the person looks too young. We don't sell any alcohol. I guess we do that because it can be assumed that most college students are at least 18 or about to be 18. Our store is VERY busy 90% of the time with a line going out the door. I have been worried about stings in the past, but as I'll only be working there a week or so more, I think I should be alright. If we did card, I can predict we'd have a lot of frustrated customers and quite a few people that think I should remember they're 18 from yesterday when they came in.
I think it would be good to do it anyway. It's hard if it isn't policy for every employee to do it though.

When I worked at a bar on Fort Myers beach during Spring Break, I had a guy in his 40's come up to the bar with a kid who looked around 21. They ordered beers. I told him they had to go to the bouncer to be carded and stamped. The older guy tried to talk me out of it, but I didn't budge (would have been fired). They gave up, and walked off in different directions. We all believed it was a cop using an underage offender he caught to try to get me.

On another day (before the bouncers came on duty), a kid came up and showed me an Indiana license. He about blew a gasket when I pulled out my own Indiana license to compare (I knew when I first looked at his something was off...it was the font). We confiscated it, and put it in the pile that we turned over to ATF every week. His dad, a cop, tried talking the owner and the bouncer into giving it back. Sorry, Charlie. Those 100 per week were our proof of good faith effort for when a fake slipped past. Those bouncers were GOOD at spotting them.

I was at an outdoor, Friday evening, downtown, music concert in Vacaville, CA a few months ago that's sponsored by the city. They have a couple of beer trucks there that they sell brew from. They asked for my ID when I asked for a beer.
I pointed to my silver-gray hair and all of the lines in my face and they still wanted to see my ID. They wouldn't sell me the beer. I was pissed off and left the place.
I'm 61 years old.

I have a friend who once told me that, when she was five years old, her dad would send her down to the local convenience store to pick up some cigarettes. It was never a problem for her. But, hey, that's Japan for you. You can still buy cigarettes and liquor from a vending machine.

How about they stop carding for credit card verification. It violates all the major credit card companies terms of service. There was a consumerist post on it a couple of months ago.

@randomhookup:

I have never had a problem buying alcohol in Mass. with my NH license. The only time I have ever had a hassle out of state was a grocery store in Maine in a tourist town about 30 minutes from the NH border. It was ridiculous - they claimed not taking out of state licenses was the law, but in a town where people come from out of state regularly to ski, I have serious doubts they reject all out of state licenses.

Either way, they lost my business to a nearby convenience store, and I won't go back there again. Similarly for any place in MA - not accepting an out of state ID is stupid and it is just going to lose you business.

I hate the credit card verification thing. Last night my mom needed printer cartridges and sent me out to get them with her credit card. She didn't have $78 in cash and Ofice Depot doesn't do ATM purchases. They wouldn't let me use her credit card because they asked for ID and I simply told them I was her daughter and I was running an errand for her. I ended up having to put it on my card and have her pay me back later. Funny though... they let me use her teacher discount card without an ID. *eyeroll* and when I took out the credit card that I said was mine they didn't make me bring out my ID for it. I should have just pulled out another one of hers. (she has me carry another card for gas and schoolbooks etc.)

MRMYSTERIOUS AT 10:36 AM said:

"How about they stop carding for credit card verification. It violates all the major credit card companies terms of service. There was a consumerist post on it a couple of months ago."

They can actually match your name on a photo ID to the embedded name on the credit/debit card in case you've lost your card and someone else is trying to use it.

I heard a lawyer recommended that when you get a credit/debit card, that instead of writing your signature on the back of the card you should write "SHOW PHOTO ID" on the signature strip. I've done this and found that many more store clerks will then ask for a supporting ID than they did when only a signature was on the card.
This increases the odds of stopping someone from usuing a stolen or lost card on your dime.

I've been 21 since March, and I've been carded only 2 or 3 times and I don't look much older either. I hate it because it makes me feel old :D

Interesting story though.....a few weeks ago, my mom and I were at the grocery store later at night on a Friday (no, I don't have anything better to do sometimes). The cashier was about 18, the girl in front of us couldn't have been any older than 18, she looked like she was still in high school. And the only thing she was buying was a case of Natural Light. Poor high school/college students who are going to parties don't buy the good stuff, they buy the cheap stuff so they can get more of it and have plenty to get shitfaced, and natty light is about as cheap as you can get. And she wasn't buying anything else, so you know she was on her way to her friends house, not spending $150 on groceries to fill up her pantry to feed her family. Cashier asked her for her ID. Her response..."I uhh....I left it at home, but I bought beer here last week, I promise!" (oldest excuse in the book). The cashier thought it over for a minute, and sold her the beer. We check out, get to the parking lot, and guess who's parked across from us? And she's got a bunch of her high school friends in her car and another car. And they're all outside because her car battery's dead and they're jumping it, but I got a good look at them, and none of them could've been a day over 18. Needless to say, when we got home, my mom called the store and talked to the manager who seemed genuinely upset about this and said he'd take care of it, so hopefully he did.

hmm... comments are fuxx0red again. Not showing up again.

When I got out of school for undergrad, I lived in a VERY skanky neighborhood in SF (a literal crack dealer was my downstairs neighbor). It sounds bad but there were a lot of DJs that lived around there so it was a great neighborhood for that, since I was a promoter.

I digress. Anyway, addicts, crack dealers, women of questionable morals in hot pants strutting the streets, like something out of a bad TV show. And yup, the localities had a 2-week period when they were checking for liquor store violations. Nice priorities, fellahs!

"I am McLovin"

When I had to take a TABC course a few years back, we were told that the only ID that we could legally accept was a Texas driver's license or state ID, and if we sold to someone underage, the store would be fined, and the cashier could be charged with a misdemeanor with a maximum sentence of a year behind bars.

No way would I go to prison so some underage ass could get their cheap beer.

@spinfire:

You are right that it's stupid, but you will find places, especially close to college campuses, that enforce it. Sometimes stupid laws end up on the books and become a pain to get rid off (the Mass. law limiting the number of groceries that could sell beer and wine is an example -- the voters rejected the change).

@Javert: That's another in a long list of reasons I now live in TX instead of MA. A license is a license, no matter the state... What next, my TX DL is no longer valid for driving in MA?

Texas is generally pretty easy on the "und you vill show us your paperz!" thing for alcohol, except in the counties that have just recently become "wet"... there's still lots of "dry" counties, wherein the old-timey laws still do not allow for selling of any alcohol whatsoever. I'm not a fan of those counties, not one little bit. Pure stupidity.

Why would anyone who works somewhere that sells alcohol be willing to risk their job for some random person, get the ID out or your SOL. If you doing like it call a congressman, dont berate the person who isnt willing to get nicked for 4k and a year in jail so you can have your booze.

@CurbRunner:
When I got married I actually changed my name on my credit card before my ID. (It's a lot faster to call the bank than go to the DMV).

For 6 months I had cashiers ask to see my ID and NOT ONE batted an eye at the fact that the two names were different. The name on my card WAS NOT the name on my ID and they never once denied the purchase. I even have "See ID" written on my credit card.

It does absolutely NOTHING to prevent fraud. It's just a waste of time.

So why the hell DON'T they card you when you charge things? I've been SCAMMED several times by people using MY account WITHOUT permission and I don't appreciate the fact that stores can't get off their asses and card me while I'm paying with credit but they can card 90 year old women who are OBVIOUSLY legal age to buy booze.

I always thank clerks when they actually check my ID, but those that do are way too rare. I'm interrogated more when buying cold medicine, which can only hurt me if I screw up, than I am when doing something that, if I'm a cheat, could hurt other people!

So, does this mean my Illinois DL won't cut it when I'm in Boston next week?

@mrmysterious: And as we know, "policy" doesn't have the force of law, so it's not enforceable, but I'd rather they carded (see my rant below) when I use credit. Unlike receipt checking stupidity, I'm willing to give up the time for that because it really can do something to protect people. Why's it so hard?

@MMD: I think you can say no but then they can refuse to sell. I'd file a complaint with the local BBB, since it IS a legitimate complaint for that kind of forum. If they get enough complaints about invading privacy when they have no need to know, they'll see business disappearing, and either change their ways or go out of business and someone who respects customers' privacy will replace them.

@MMD

I am 21 and was in Connecticut recently. We had a few large bags of cans and bottles to return, and returned them at a can / bottle machine outside a liquor store. Since I was under 21, they said it was a violation of state law for me to go in the store and redeem the 5 cents per item return.

My guess is that's the same reason they won't let you buy water in a liquor store without an ID. I ended up having to go to a nearby store that accepted the liquor store's return slips. But I think it was ridiculous.

I usually just put my ID down on the counter when I'm buying XYZ-buyer-age-controlled-product, even when they don't ask, and I say, "So you don't lose your job." How bad would that suck to get busted for not checking the ID of someone who's obvious or even only slightly questionable with respect to age just because the government officer or the employer was feeling like a dick that day?

@MystiMel: Good for them. You were using a credit card that wasn't yours. You were rightly refused, and those of us who have been fraud victims thank the store for things like this. You could have gone elsewhere or used your own card or let her do it herself.

I carded a 60something man once as a joke. I didn't need to cause I knew him personally, but wanted to make his day. Oops. He was a little miffed, but since I was carding everyone anyway, it was nothing to worry about really.

@MystiMel: Have your mother make you an authorized user of the credit card. The cashier should be able to confirm that you have permission to use the card that way.

I don't get what the big deal is. If you're planning on buying alcohol, just pull out your ID and hand it over. Then you don't have to make the cashier feel uncomfortable, and you get your fix. If you don't like the age requirement, move to a country that doesn't have it.

Where I work, we have the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission (TABC) bust people for underage sales. I lost a good friend at work to one of their UCs.

okay, so you need to be age-verified to buy alcohol. In order to verify your age, you need to show your valid ID. If you don't verify your age, you can't buy alcohol legally and the seller can get in trouble.

.... I'm not seeing the problem here.

Seriously. You as a customer know the rules and the law, right? You know you need to be 21 and that they may check your ID.

Whether or not the law is stupid is a different issue, and whether or not it's inconvenient for them to card people who are old is also irrelevant. What if an old guy drives to a liquor store in his car and refuses to show his ID? What if he doesn't HAVE his ID on him? Wouldn't that mean he was driving without his license on him, which is generally not good (you have to produce it within X hours, at least around here, which is a pain since you must drive to city hall.)

@thepounder:

I was in between Austin and San Antonio and they wouldn't sell me beer at the drive-through liquor store because I had an out of state ID (people get confused w/ the DC license). The girl I was with had a US passport (doesn't drive) and they wouldn't let her buy because she was with me. I guess they probably don't have too many out-of-state people in the middle of Texas, but still.

I got carded buying Halo 3 at Meijer last night. It was totally absurd.

I used to work at a CVS in New York, and on more than one occasion, there were teenagers coming to the register-who actually looked a lot older- and attempted to purchase cigarrettes. After I would refuse sale because no ID was presented upon my request, the teens would leave and then show up with a health department worker who would take down the store's licese number for his/her report.