Hospital Sends Debt Collectors After Homeless Man
Phil Hughes is a homeless handy-man who'll paint your house number on your curb for $5 and some turkey leftovers, says Mary Olsen, a homeowner who hires Hughes for occasional odd jobs.
When Hughes got sick, Mary Olsen told him to put down her name as an emergency contact.
"I didn't want him to die and not know about it," she told the Contra-Costa Times. Hughes spent 3 or 4 days in the hospital and the bill came to Mary Olsen's house. It was for $42,000.
Finally, Mary had to threaten the debt collectors with media exposure to get the calls to stop. The hospital can't discuss Mr. Hughes directly, but told the Contra-Costa Times that John Muir Hospital "seeks reimbursement through a county program for indigent adults. It does not bill patients or put them through collections."
It was pages and pages and pages," she said. "They detail every shot they give you, every antibiotic, every aspirin."Phil and I were laughing about it. Here's a homeless man who doesn't have a penny to his name and he has this enormous hospital bill. How's he going to pay it?"
The humor quickly evaporated when a collection agency began hounding her with phone calls looking for Hughes. The collectors especially liked to call early Saturday mornings.
She told them Hughes did not live there, was homeless and could not afford to pay. Her pleas made no difference: The calls continued daily for a couple of weeks.
Mary Olsen says she's happy with the care that her friend received at the hospital, but is less than thrilled with the debt collectors. "Phil is so obviously an indigent person that no one would expect he would have enough money for lunch," she said, "let alone a hospital bill."
Hospital seeks $42,000 -- from a homeless man [Contra-Costa Times]
(Photo:Contra-Costa Times)
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Comments:
Find a compassionate conservative to help out, didn't the Prez say we had this great system; just go to the ER and all is daisies and cream??
Huh? Huh ?
Didn't he??
Sounds like John Muir Hospital spouts lies.
Newsflash: health care costs money.
Of course they're going to send a bill, and when it doesn't get paid, they're going to send it to collections.
Why is that so shocking?
I had an outpatient surger and my HMO showed me what they paid vs what was billed. all in all 6000 wound up being about 3500 instantly.
*surgery
Debt collectors work on commission. They don't care about privacy, the Hill-Burton Act, the FDCPA or anything else but collecting the debt.
Aside from car salesmen, the lowest form of human life that exists. I can't imagine how hard the dog gets kicked when they get home at the end of the day.
@E-Bell: I think what's especially shocking, at least to me, is that they turned over his emergency contact to the collections agency.
For public policy reasons, to encourage people to provide an emergency contact, that name should be kept confidential.
Actually, the F&I guy is lower than the salesman, but still above sleazy debt collectors.
I'm tired of the "find a compassionate conservative" crap. Make a relevent post.
I agree with E-BELL. People need something, there is a cost involved. Those who gave the service are entitled to payment. And who's going to pay, the government? Only way they can do that is by increasing taxes....for everyone. The honest thing to do would have been for him to not laugh at the bill, but make a good-faith effort to repay.
I work for a hospital in the billing department. Each facility is different, but I can say this: If the friend/guarantor (Mary) was being hounded by collections, then the account was already past due. Instead of letting the first couple of statements sit and collect dust, they should have called the billing department and explained the circumstances before it had a chance to age and turn over to a bad debt/collections agency.
Seriously, health care providers/facilities would rather work with patients (be it long-term payment plans, or even qualifying the patient through a charity program and writing off the bill which gives some providers/facilities a tax credit) than have accounts go to collections.
But you can't wait until the bill's already IN collections. And you can't expect that the consideration of charity care/indigent care is automatic. All it takes is picking up the phone and talking with someone in the billing department when you get that first statement to put that in motion. If you don't bother to do that, the account will go to collections.
I know a lot of hospitals will treat people for free if they can't afford it. This is surprising that they would charge a homeless guy $42,000. Most people with decent jobs probably wouldn't be able to afford that.
@scatyb: Did you bother reading the article? The guy is homeless and paints house numbers on the curb for $5 and "turkey leftovers". Last time I checked, US hospitals don't accept leftover food as currency.
@E-Bell: As Not_Seth_Brundle points out, I'm pretty shocked that they apparently interpret "emergency contact" as "hound this person about someone else's medical bills".
And it's painfully obvious there's a disconnect somewhere in the hospital's system if they claim that they recoup indigent care costs through other means and then turn Mr. Hughes' case over to a debt collection agency.
Other people besides the hospital bill the patient. I had a kidney removed and got billed by the anesthesiologist, the home nurse, and about six other professionals and paraprofessionals in addition to the hospital.
Now, one thing that surprises me is that they let him in the hospital at all without any sort of up front payment. My hospital would not accept me for my surgery at all if I did not give them 300 dollars up front. I did not have the money at the time and I had to actually call all my friends until someone loaned it to me. He got there with ten minutes to spare before the scheduled surgery time, and we were pleading with the finance gal to put down the phone and not call off the surgery until he arrived.
It has finally come a point when I go to this website to read opinions of trolls who don't GET THE POINT. A homeless man with a $42k hospital bill. We're supposed to get mad at the SYSTEM, not at him!
Sheesh. It's 9/11 y'alls, NEVER FORGET!
I agree with you there. The collections agent is clearly in the wrong, and the hospital should not have given out Mary's information.
But that's not how the article reads. It reads like it's just SO outrageous that they'd try to collect the bill from a man who is "obviously" indigent.
Chances are that they'll eventually give up and write off the debt (which actually makes health care more expensive for you and me, but that is neither here nor there). But they're not heartless or evil for sending out a bill.
@scatyb:
Let me read that back to you, because you seem to have had your fingers in your ears when you said it.
The homeless man should make a good faith effort to pay the $42,000 bill.
Perhaps he can pay in leftover turkey?
@chrispiss1186: You're right, a lot of hospitals will. The thing is, billing departments don't automatically know who qualifies for free services or bill write-offs. With the amount of accounts that generate daily in a hospital, and with only so many employees working accounts, there's no way to look at every individual one and call the patient and screen them to see if they meet the guidelines to have their bills written off or reduced through the facility's charity program(s). It's up to the patients to call when they get their first billing statement.
So much for not waiting until a bill is in collections...
I had minor surgery earlier this year. One day I receive two letters. One is from the hospital, asking me to pay $250, the balance which my insurance didn't cover. The other is from the hospital's collection agency, asking me for $350.
Both reference the same case number.
I sent the hospital a check and sent the collection agency a registered letter telling them to fuck off. We'll see what happens.
I thought that all the information on your admittance/intake sheets was covered by HIPAA privacy regulations, and couldn't be shared with a third-party without express written permission.
Jeez--when I went to the ER with a sliced up thumb, my civil union partner couldn't get them to tell him anything because I hadn't signed a HIPAA waiver while the thumb was leaking.
Can you blame them for trying to collect? Hospitals are businesses. SOme are non profit, but still they have bills to pay. Doctors, nurses, overhead, etc. Healthcare is NOT free. On the contrary, it is VERY expensive.
In my state, more than 100 ERs have closed because of people who do not pay their fucking bills. Not because they can't pay, but because they WON'T.
I think this guy should give $5 for every 10th house address he paints for his bill till it is paid off or he dies. It's a minor amount, but at least he would be paying off his debt.
If Phil went into a restaurant and had lunch but could not afford his bill, doesn't he still owe the restaurant?
There is NO right to health care.
Well, fingers in my ears still wouldn't affect my understanding of the written word.
Yes, he should try to repay what he can. Maybe he should do more than just spraypaint sidewalks.
Somehow you think not having money for whatever reason is an excuse not to be held responsible. So he doesn't have much. He should at least try to work something out.
Maybe I should give all my money to charity(making me a saint), quite my job, and become homeless. According to your thinking I can then reasonably expect things for free, so long as I don't ask for much.
@bellagray: I saw no indication in the article that the hospital billing department billed the gentleman's emergency contact prior to the issue going to collections. So there very well may not have been any bills for her to ignore. Isn't it possible that when the file went to collections the agency saw a potential "responsible" target in the listed emergency contact and decided to take advantage of that information?
When debts are sold to collections, all information not directly pertinent to the billing should be cut from the file.
@GreatCaesarsGhost: Pay in turkey? No. Pay with the $5 from the $50 he just made from painting 10 numbers on houses, yes.
HE screwed up by ignoring the bill. He should have worked with the billing dept to make some sort of arrangements. Charity, write offs, $5 a day, what ever. HE OWES THEM MONEY. He OWES them an explanation.
I'm so glad I live in Canada... sure we have to wait 9 months to get surgery but at least it's free. And hey, if we think we'll die before the doctor gets to look at us THEN we can head down to the states and hand over the deed to our house along with our first born son.
Seriously, what did this guy have that costs $42,000... was he in the hospital for a year?
@scatyb: I hope you end up in a hospital with some outrageous bill, just so I can sit there, laugh, and hope you enjoy having to pay some monster bill for whatever disease or illness you happen to come down with.
Hey Meg, looks like grammer check missed this one :)
"Finally, Mary had to threated the debt collectors with media exposure to get the calls to stop."
@wring: The people who shirk their bills ARE the problem. Not the system as you put it. How do the people in the billing dept know he is homeless? I doubt that he has even talked to them yet.
People! I can NOT make this more clear. THERE IS NO RIGHT TO HEALTH CARE! NONE! Just as there is no right to food. There is no right to water. There is no right to a car, etc. If you want something you need to pay or at least attempt to pay for it!!
So no right to life, good that's settled. Without that pesky water and food it seems that is where it's headed. And if THAT is true then why not just shoot folks and steal their food? Unless you are homeless surfing the net in a library then you are able to see a computer which means you got no idea just how poor poor is in the USA day in and day out and thinking that poor slob can hand over his food money to a bill is just silly.
@jwissick:
If he had health insurance, perhaps he would have sought treatment before it got to be a 42,000 dollar bill?
Whether it fits with an Objectivist world view or not, providing preventative care for everyone who can't pay would save everyone who can money. It's that or require proof of payment up front for everyone.
Lose your wallet, ID, and health insurance card? Hahahah, you're out of luck, buddy! Go bleed to death in the street!
@scatyb: It's funny how many people so obviously don't RTFS, let alone RTFM: "John Muir Hospital 'seeks reimbursement through a county program for indigent adults. It does not bill patients or put them through collections.'"
The catch-22 of it all is this: Asprin in a hospital costs $100 per pill, because people don't pay their bills. People don't pay their bills, because they can't afford $100/pill asprin. Rinse, multiply by 10 for something more significant, repeat.
@SimonSwegles: I'm confused as to what part of "The half-inch-thick packet arrived at her home addressed to Phil Hughes" you didn't understand.
Unfortunately, bellagray is about as right as she can be. This is an egregious case but I was a bad luck-ridden student and worked with hospital billing to pay what I could until the accounts were written off as charity cases. I'm sure if Mr. Hughes and Ms. Olsen had contacted the hospital instead of "laughing about it" something could have been worked out. Hell, I'll bet it could still be dealt with via the hospital's billing office. When an unnoticed piece of an ER bill went to collections, I was able to come to an agreement with a nice CSR at the hospital to take payment; the collector was refunded along with a receipt and letter saying it was an error.
But the whole "he should have to pay back every red cent 'cause hospitals need money and/or he doesn't have a right to expect it to be free" sentiment is just plain bogus. Take that idea to the next logical step, realize we have no "right" to many consumer issues discussed here and find another site to blow your vitriolic smoke.
The real story here is that the hospital apparently has no idea what its own employees are doing, or whether they should be doing it.
The spokesman said the hospital "seeks reimbursement through a county program for indigent adults. It does not bill patients or put them through collections." Okay. Is it crazy of me to think that, if they're going to do $42K worth of surgery to a guy, they might reasonably be expected to find out where he lives? If they assumed that he lived at the same address as his emergency contact, that was a really stupid mistake. They should have clarified all this before they started cutting on him.
@TheName: Color me 'jackass'. I totally misread that part of the article in my initial scan. Whoops!
@TheName: "I'm sure if Mr. Hughes and Ms. Olsen had contacted the hospital instead of "laughing about it" something could have been worked out. Hell, I'll bet it could still be dealt with via the hospital's billing office."
The only thing to be "worked out" is for them to stop sending bills, because the bill is not their responsibility.
(I get a little pissy about stuff like this because 10 months after getting my current cell number I'm STILL getting collection calls for the previous owner.)
Yeah, there is no right to free health care. That indigent handy man should have just sucked it up and died in the streets. Maybe he could have infected a few of his friends in the mean time.
And, there's no right to free disposal of your dead body, either - so he should have just been left to rot in the gutter.
@jwissick:
The people in the billing department might know he's homeless because of the information he gave them when they admitted him. According to the article this woman gave them her contact information solely as emergency contact.
I worked in a hospital while going through college, and have had my fair share of ER visits since then. As you may or may not be aware the paperwork that has to be filled out is tremendous. I'm pretty sure that during the 3 days he was in the hospital someone visited him to inquire about insurance coverage and payment. Most hospitals even have an individual dedicated to this. The hospital I worked in called "Utilization Review" so as to put a kindler, gentler face on it.
Is he responsible for his bills? Absolutely. Did the hospital have knowledge of his inability to pay? Greater than 99% chance. Did they turn it over to collections to see if they could squeeze anything out his emergency contact? Maybe
As to your statement "You have no right to health care". Logically you are absolutely correct. However in practice who wants to be the hospital or doctor who refuses to treat someone, only to have it later reported that the person died and you refused to help?
Are there no workhouses? No? Well, then let them all die and decrease the surplus population.
@scatyb: The best way to make the world's finest healthcare system is to start denying claims in old age, so old people die sooner and eliminate 25% of the population from participating as they cannot afford insurance.
This is a great country, and makes me wonder why on September 11th why people don't care about socialized servies like fire departments and police departments verse healthcare. I would make comparisions to the World Trade Center and who should be billed for all the stuff that happened there, but I just can't be that sick of an individual. Maybe those who think socialized healthcare is evil, and poor people should just die can explain it for me.
@wring: No. Its spoken by a person who takes responsibility for his bills and wants to have an emergency room open when he needs it instead of closed like 100 of them in California over the last 20 years because people just walk away from their responsibilities and screw over the rest of us.
In San Jose area, ambulances are regularly turned away because the ERs are too full and too many of them have closed because of people not paying their bills. When your spouse is in a car accident, don't you want to have an ER that they can go to?
A few years back, I was unemployed and had to go into the hospital for a nasty lung infection... ended up in a coma for nearly 2 months, with a month or so of rehab and other things tacked on at the end of the stay. During that time the hospital towed my car away, while it was legally parked in the hospital parking lot. I ended up having to pay about 800 bucks to get my car back, but the hospital ended up eating my 276,000 bill for care. I think I came out ahead.
The hospital didn't send it to the collection agency? Then who did?
Why did the hospital send the bill to the "Emergency Contact"?
The whole thing doesn't add up.
@jwissick:
National Health Care would take care of all your problems. My guess is, you're against it, though.
They'll never the send the uncollected billions $$$ to Mexico for treatments for millions of illegal aliens. Why can't a decent American get a break. Next time just say you're illegal and "yo quiero Taco Bell" and they won't come after you.
They should send the trillion dollars in updaid bills to the Mexican government for all the treatments rendered to their citizens here. Next time just say you're illegal and you won't get the bill. I paid more than $100K in taxes per year and I still have to wait hours and hours in line while the illegals clog up the ER for free treatment.
42,000 lol to an insurance company, the bill would be closer to 10,000 tops. Isn't it so ridiculous what they try to charge low income people vs. billion dollar health corporations who are driven by greed, not making sure you are well.