Is there no transcript? I don't do YouTube. (Not anything philosophical, I just can't stand spending two or three minutes watching something I could read in one).

Am I missing the scam part? All I'm seeing are some very scary finger nails and some guy that she isn't even allowing to speak or help in any way. I'm not saying he didn't scam her, because all I heard was "here's the keys, the car's right out side... here's the keys, the car's right out side... you scammed her" and nothing else. I hate to think that I would side with the guy, but what is there to prove that the dealership actually pulled a fast one on that lady?

Awesome.

As much as I'm first to say "Buyer Beware!" and curse anyone who doesn't take the personal responsibility of looking out for themselves, this is what ever person should do.

Kudos for being a responsible consumer and doing what you need to do.

@Charles Duffy: I'm hearing-impaired. I'm increasingly frustrated by "stories" that are nothing but links to videos that ARE NOT CAPTIONED. Hello? There are those of us who use the Web so we can READ IT and the "throw a youtube link in there" cheapout gives us a totally useless "story".

I ALSO don't like all this YouTube stuff. I read this site at work (read) and can't have the audio going for video. I also sometimes get the chance to read just two lines at a time, so pausing a video would get quite annoying. By all means, post YouTube videos, but please post a tanscript as well.

You guys didn't miss much with the video. It was lacking anything of substance.

This happened to a good friend of mine, the dealer (Rosenthal Nissan of Tyson's Corner) took his car on trade, said 7.5% interest is what you'll get, then 3 weeks later they still couldn't find a bank to take on my friends loan at anything close to that rate, because his credit was so bad.

So on the advice of a lawyer we tried to give the car back, the dealer said "sure, but you can't have your trade nor the value we gave you for it, too bad". So after fighting with them my friend managed to get 13% interest loan.

In the end it worked out ok, my friend took on the 13% loan and after a year re-financed the car down to about 7%, just holding the loan for a year dramatically improved his credit.

Of course we would have been much happier if they had been up front with us when he bought the car :( Sadly when they finally found the financing at 13% they still tried to add a few points on to it for their own profit, which we were able to negotiate off.

Sadly spot delivery is all too common.

I'm missing something also. Why does she keep cutting the guy off? We see a caption that this is a video of a scam but all we see is her handing the keys back and not explaining the situation. It seemed to me like the guy had no idea what was going on so shouldn't she have at least given the guy a chance to respond and fix the situation if she was unhappy?

@Charles Duffy: You are my hero. It pains me greatly that we are shifting more and more aggressively away from the written word.

My company filters YouTube and Flickr, so we can't see it even if we are on a break. Transcripts would be really helpful.

I don't think she did anything wrong. She just went right in to the dealership, got proof of returning the car on videotape, stated her business and walked out. Obviously her mother felt like she had been scammed, was too upset to deal with it herself and her daughter took care of business for her. What, is it just too far-fetched to think that a car salesman might have actually LIED to someone?

@AlteredBeast:
@Buran:
@Charles Duffy:

When the man walks up, he basically asks why the lady why she has a camera. She then tells thim that basically every single person at the dealership is a liar and she is here to catch their horrible ways on camera. Once the man sits down at the desk with the lady it goes pretty much like this:

Man: What seems to be the problem?
Lady: Here are the keys to the car. We don't want it.
Man: (begins to say something"
Lady: (cutting him off) Here are the keys to the car. We don't want it.
Man: Why?
Lady: Because you are all liars and you are running a scam on my mother. You're upsetting her. So here are the keys to the car. We don't want it.
Man: (tries speaing again)

Rinse, lather, repeat. You are seariously not missing much.
@Charles Duffy:

Add me to the "enough with the YouTube stuff" group, a waste of time and bandwidth.

Back on topic --
Just turning in the keys may not be enough. I am sure that the dealership made a photocopy of her drivers license and had her sign a form with some very fine print and unintelligble legal jargon. I would not be surprised that this slimy dealership sends this "customer" a bill of some sort.

I don't have anything against youtube in general, but I don't watch out of focus videos with hard to hear sound and a wobbly camera.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but don't MOST car dealerships have unsatisfactory BBB ratings? I don't have the data obviously, but just a hunch...

Where is the guy looking? Is he so full of it that he can't even look at the camera "in the eye"? Or maybe they need to write bigger cue cards.

@SkyeBlue: But where is the proof that he lied to them. That's all I'm asking for. He got in maybe 6-7 words total. I'm not saying that he's an innocent angel, but the lady could have at least let him get in 10 words.

@Jesus On A Pogo Stick: Hey, I never thought I'd be thanking "Jesus on a Pogo Stick". ;)

Thanks!

@Buran: You're very welcome.

I LOVE this consumer! She's articulate, clear and concise, unemotional and straight the point with no extra BS or insults.

Great job.

this sort of happened to my wife and I when we first got married. We "bought" a car but because the banks were "closed" on a saturday afternoon they let us take the car home, leave our trade-in there and then we were suppose to come back in on Monday to finish the deal.

Monday rolls around and all of a sudden we weren't approved unless we could come up with $2000 down.

I said nope. Brought the car back and even made them pay me for the gas I had to put in it since they gave it to me on empty.

Gotta stand up for yourself, that's for sure.

BTW...vote me in on the less youtube/more transcripts crowd. Thx.

I'm all for what she did and standing up against the crap they pulled, but can she represent her mother in the way she did (being a third party to a contracted deal)?

Also are you allowed to tell people in a business that they shouldn't buy there? I know people do it, but having that recorded and telling people not to buy there before she left the premises seems to remind me that you're not really allowed to do that. It's another thing for her to stand outside on the sidewalk and do it though... if I recall.

Either way, nice job standing up to the guy.

Wait I just watched the rebuttal. I stand confused.

Either way I still like the tenacity of the lady. I'd hate to be returning her daughter home late from a date.

I love this site and I have gotten a lot of useful information from reading it. However, stories like this stretch the credibility of the publishers. Is there no obligation to "fact check" what is being presented as a news story?

If blogs don't follow the basic rules of fair reporting they will fall into the Yellow Journalism bucket. In the case of Consumerist it would be an especially evil shade of Yellow.

We all know there are scam artists, crooks, mindless corporations, evil government plans out there. A free press is the number one tool in the fight to keep them under control. While being an advocate allows a certain amount of bias in choosing stories it does not allow anything but the truth - less you become what you are protecting us from.

While this is the first I am writing, it is not the first time I have seen this Cavelier relationship with the facts and more damaging --the implication of what these sometimes meager facts represent.

There are also mean, stupid, evil, ill-informed scam artist consumers out there. Was this buyers remorse delivered with a video camera.

What if this salesman is not a scammer, what if the Mother did ask to leave with the car. How will I ever know. You may have done him harm. Are you OK with that possibility, when a simple fact check could have made almost certain. Your impartial credibilty is your service/product - don't tarnish it.

BTW thanks for the many untainted pices I see here.

Chazz

I would be curious why someone is returning a car and wanting to get out of there so fast. Especially when a camera is involved, seeing as cameras are use as proof. "Proof of what" this guy is probably wondering. For all he knows, this lady might have completely ruined the car in someone way, and she is trying to get on video that she returned the car and no one at the dealership said anything. I would just find it suspicious and would probably want to go over the car in detail before she leaves.

Umm... was the second video added scripted? Did he just endter himself into the video? And did they edit the lady to now say "Buy a car here" where the first one sounded like she said "Don't buy a car here"? Weird.

Agreed on the YouTube comments. They're a pain.

I'm not sure if the dealer's rebuttal is correct, nor am I sure that the customers "video evidence" of a scam is correct. What I see in the customer's video is her returning the car, them taking it, and then her disrupting the work of their sales staff as she leaves. What I see in the dealer's rebuttal is - the mother wanted a car, but her credit is bad. So she proposes a co-signer, who's credit is also bad (but not as bad as hers). I'm sure the dealer was not entirely faultless in the misunderstanding (and that's the way I see it right now) but surely the well-educated consumer will know that going into a car dealership with C- credit backing up D- credit is going to result in some shaky credit terms.

I hate car dealers with a passion, and especially Kia dealers (they are the snake's underbelly of car dealers) but I see this is as pretty much a misunderstanding based on a consumer's expectations of their creditworthiness being set too high.

Kudos to Consumerist for posting both the "story" and the rebuttal.

It looks like the scam took place before the video.

Mom leaves with car and understanding of terms of agreement to be X and that they had to comeback the next day to sign because the "Banks were closed".

Mom comes back the next day and dealer says terms of agreement are Y.

Mom gets upset and sicks daughter on dealer.

Daughter goes in with camera and video tapes shows nothing really other then her giving keys and walking out saying "Don't buy a car here"

Response video is a joke and a poor attempt at spin. An honest response rather then a "re-enactment" woulda been much more credible.

@chazz:

I am completely agree with you. I think Consumerist.com has the great potential of really helping to fight back against some truly horrible companies. However, to maintain legitimacy three things have to happen. You need to make sure that all stories factual, make sure that each side gets their say, and that the customer isn't always right.

Sites like this one have a way of becoming so one-sided, and so ridiculously biased toward customers, that many companies are able to write it off as a joke. I don't want to see that happen, because of all the good a site like this can do and has done. But we have to methodical in the approach, and not always be looking to stick it to big corporations for every little thing they do.

Jesus on a pogo stick: I see it as protecting herself by NOT LETTING him get a word in edgewise!

Frankieblackjack: When she told the potential customer there at the dealership not to buy a car there I see it as just expressing her opinion. I don't see anything illegal in that.

@Jerim, she was involved in a scam that Brad Benson is infamous for.

I'd watch out for any dealership in NJ. In all serious, many are tied together in either mob connections or just layers of undetected fraud.

Just a note to NJ car buyers, know what the car is actually worth, and what your credit is worth. Typically, it's cheaper to go your own financing route and don't listen to their bullshit - they're professionals at it.

I bought a Mercury Cougar at a local used lot in Bordentown and the guy was trying to get a rip off of $6500. He even accidentally told me that the car has been sitting there for a few months and its time to push it. He quoted that $6300 was the lowest he'd go for the car.

My mom, another professional bullshitter, came in and just screamed at him that she wasn't paying more then $5500 + a new ash tray (it was missing) + 30 day warranty + registration (had PA tags) + radio (broken). He said no way, and she said fine I'm leaving and just as we almost left, he broke down and gave me the car for $5500.

It pays to know what you're buying and what else is available. Don't rush into the first "amazing deal"

is the Eurythmics "Would I Lie To You" soundtrack concidental or intentional

From what I gathered from watching the second video it looks like the mother and aunt were going to be cosigners on the car loan. When the aunt no showed the terms had to change because the risk changed, sucks but I don't see harm in it. According to the only actual items presented in the video which happened to also be the rebuttal video the mother defaulted on multiple previous car loans and was probably lucky they would find anyone who would finance them regardless of the terms.

I agree with others though, I would love to have some actual facts attached to this story from the mother/daughter side as a video showing her walking into a dealership stating "you are liars and I am returning this car" does not really give people much to work with.

Happened to me when I bought my Toyota Corolla. I was promised a 2.9% financing deal, 2 1/2 weeks later when I got back from a business trip I was told I needed to come in and finish signing the financing paperwork. At that point I was told me rate would be 3.9%. I argued, called banks to get another loan, but that was still the lowest rate out there... and they knew it. Basically making 1% on me for 5 years without blinking an eye. I ended up not fighting and just buying with the 3.9% since I donated my previous car to charity already and needed a car. Needless to say, I will not buy from that dealer again.

I agree kudos for putting the rubuttal on. I had not seen it before my original post. So I guess I also come down on the side of YouTube doesn't really do the total job. I didn't see it or realize what it was.

@SkyeBlue: Illegal, probably not (yet) since they hadn't asked her to leave. Professional? No. Did she go to the dealership to return a car, or to "stick it to them"? If the latter, then I as I see it, they had every right to produce a rebuttal.

Your mileage may of course vary, but I bought my last car via Eloan and it was the most wonderful and easy large-ticket purchase experience I have ever been involved in.

We applied online at within a few hours we had our approval and rate, and the next day we had a "blank check" (up to our approved amount) via overnight courier. The next day we visited a dealer, told them we were a cash customer, negotiated, signed the check over and left with our car. The dealer, unsurprisingly, tried to talk us into their financing, we were polite but firm (my wife might argue I was a bit too firm) and they took our Eloan check with a smile. While they didn't get all of their bonuses for selling financing, they did make a $30K sale in less than an hour with very little fuss or muss.

I am not taking a position on this particular story because I don't know that all the facts are on those two short videos, but pre-securing your financing can help make the car buying process significantly less impulsive and trying.

I'll have to check these guys out the next time I need to move, saves me on a truck rental ;-)

Those aren't scary fingernails, its the claws of the famed Jersey Devil aka El Chupacabra.

I'm in the "the camera woman and her mother are fiscally irresponsible semi-literates who got buyers remorse" camp. I don't trust car dealers at all, but I don't begrudge a business the right to make an honest buck, as long as it is honest.
Buying a car is an emotional decision, and I'm willing to bet that the woman's mother expressed commitments inconsistent with the realities of her situation in order to get herself into a new car(nevermind what the hell someone who has had three cars repossessed is doing buying a brand new car and not a used one).
This seems like uneducated consumers to me, or uneducated people overall. That being said, remember, I'm not supporting the dealership because, for all I know, they might have tried to scam her. It seems to me, though, that the buyers past credit history(and seemingly the credit history of the entire family) bring her up as the primary suspect for why this all happened.

Is it just me? The dealer seems more credible than the consumer. When did she find out the deal had changed, the Mother never came back? Did I miss something in the YouTubes? I also don't see any legitimate reason a car dealer would let a car go off the lot without financing in place unless they planned to switch rates. That is why this story ultimately becomes a waste of time - without some real reporting. I'm exhausted - I need to get back to work.

Scam or not, this is all really he-said she-said hearsay without any actual documented evidence in support-or-against the scam. Going into the car dealership after the fact doesn't really support the woman's claim as much as it would have if they filmed the entire scam from the outset with a hidden camera, dateline style.

To those demanding a transcript: You're paying zilch for a very entertaining and informative site, and all you can do is bitch about the fact that somebody didn't sit down and spend an hour typing out a transcript for you so you could read it at work(!).

What a bizarre sense of entitlement. What's next: You're going to threaten to take your "business" elsewhere?

Can Benson make a video and tell the world about the credit history or this woman's mother and aunt? Is that information not considered private or confidential? Does the fact that they don't name names absolve the dealership of such responsibility?

I just thought I'd ask since the salesman in the first video made such a big deal about the woman having permission to record his image.

One last thing - if it was a scam the salesman seemed a bit eager to have it filmed. Usually these guys will just say "tell it to the palm."

@davebg5: I would agree but their was no name shared so it really does not open anything up, keep in mind we never saw the daughter or mothers face.

I love captioning on my TV- I always use it if it is available. That said, you have to get use to videos on the web not having transcripts or closed-captioning. I personally like to see videos to see visually what is going on. If all you like to see is words on the web, try the lynx browser (if it still exists). Sure, I like the videos even more if there is a transcript to follow along, but I realize that is a stretch. The only time I have seen transcripts is when videos are really popular and someone else adds them.

The web is becoming more and more visual. That is a good thing in my opinion. Does it leave some people behind- sure, and that is unfortunate. But I think it is a reflection of the world around us.

My mom, who has bad credit, had a great experience with this specific dealership when she bought her latest car. Now, granted she came in with separate funding from her credit union, but she really really liked them. That, and the general reputation of the dealership in the central NJ area lead me to believe that Benson probably has the facts more correct. Of course, neither video really has proof, and Benson had way more time to prepare/script his, but I'm really more inclined to believe him anyway.

Frankly, with 3 previous foreclosures, I'm shocked she got a loan at all.

/cue the "astroturfing" comments.

I've had a bad experience with Brad Benson dealership myself - it was with Hyundai Service department. My car broke down and I had it towed there (closest to where I live). There was a problem with the engine. They kept my car there for several weeks and finally announced that I had wrong oil filter installed. I had to fight with them tooth and nail to get them to honor the warranty. I contacted the filter manufacturer (Champion Laboratories, Inc.) and they offered to test the filter for any manufacturing defects at their lab, at their expense. They did not find anything wrong with the filter. I also contacted the shop where I've had the oil changed (Meineke).
The owner was so nice to provide me with copies of their cross-reference charts of oil filters (cause Brad Benson was not able to identify it themselves). Finally, after about six months of going back and forth, they agreed to make repairs under warranty, after they no longer had any wiggle room.