“Dear Consumerist,
I recently contacted my deceased pet’s (pictured at death) vet to request that they send me a series of full-body x-rays they shot about 7 years ago. While I haven’t been able to speak to a doctor or head administrator yet, the receptionists have informed me that x-rays and other medical images of their animal patients are the legal property of the hospital. They can loan the images out to me for a month, but then I must give them back. This seems really odd.”
First of all, I PAID out of pocket to have the x-rays taken. Second, the pet is deceased. There will be no need for any veterinarian to refer to those images ever again. Third, how can it be that I have full ownership rights to x-rays (that are paid for by my insurance company) of my own body, and yet I don’t own rights to my pet’s x-rays? There IS the possibility that, somewhere down the line, I signed a waiver of my rights to those images, but is it even legal for the vet to request such a waiver?
What’s the real deal here? While I’m sure very few people ever ask for their dead pet’s medical records, is there any chance you can look into this for me? How can I go about getting those x-rays in my hands?
Much appreciation from
the c-side
That is sad. “The c-side” said she was told this by a receptionist who wasn’t able to provide anything further. We say that she needs to speak with one of the doctors or hospital administrators to find out their basis for saying they own the x-rays. Does anyone else know?
The law/presidence this falls under is the same that it would fall under going to glamor shots, having a wedding photographer take pics at your wedding, or you being a model, and someone taking your pics, you do not own those pics, the photographer does. You signed away your rights to those images. Same law, different type of picture.
The Reviewer has the last, correct word on the subject. Unless you work out a prior agreement with the photographer/x-rayer, the negatives/originals are theirs.
You may certainly ask to buy them, but they are under no obligation to sell them to you (again, unless it was a condition of the original agreement).
When we got married, we specified in our contract that we could have the option to buy the original negatives from our photog 3 years later at a discount price. Haven’t done a thing with them, but nevertheless, neither has anyone else. And we were so pretty!
You might want to contact the board or agency that licenses vets in your state to see if they have any medical records regulations that might give you some rights.
I would say that in the human world you don’t own the original x-rays. Yes you can pay to have a copy made but few (if any) doctors will allow you to take the originals. Seems like the same rules likely apply in the pet world. The vet is probably obligated to keep records for a certain period of time (including test records like films). I’d look at your state statutes governing same.
I used x-rays for an art project years ago and they scanned just fine with a normal computer scanner.
I don’t know about vets but in the human world x-ray images are the property of the hospital or clinic that took them. They are required by Title 17 to keep them for 7 years. Mammograms are the only exception, the hospital is only the custodian and these x-rays are the property of the patient. In order for an x-ray to remain diagnostic quality they must be copied with special eqipment. A regular document scanner just isn’t up to the task. However most places tghese days have moved over to PACS which takes digital x-rays and stores them in large storage arrays. This makes burnign copies to Cd very cheap and easy.
I don’t think there is anything particularly unique to the medical world about this.
If you hire a photographer to take your photo, in the absense of any specific contract to the contrary, the photographer owns (1) the physical negatives (for traditional photography), as well as (2) the copyright to the photographs, as the creator.
This is true even though you are “paying” for the photographs. As for copyright, it’s simple, garden-variety Title 17 copyright law.
The bloggers on Consumerist own the copyrights to their posts unless there is an explicit transfer-on-invoice provision in their contracts. Writers in general own the copyright to articles they write, even though a publication “pays” for them, unless the copyright is specifically transferred.
What you’re paying for is the service to have the X-rays made and interpreted by professionals. Beyond that, you need to read the fine print.
Some people said “He paid for the x-rays, he own them”. Not true. You pay a technical fee to take the picture and a professional fee for a vet to interpret the image.
@humphrmi: It’d be a suit at equity (“return our property” – a type of specific performance), so you’d likely not have the right to jury trial. Only if they wanted damages would there be a jury trial.
@eelmonger: This, coming from someone with a user avatar that appears to be a gaping vagina?
I always wanted to work the phrase “gaping vagina” into a post on Consumerist…
Verizon FIOS TV also adds unrequested service to an account.
When I moved to a new home, I had my FIOS TV and HSI moved. My first statement after the move was almost double the previous statement. A line by line investigation showed premium packages added (movie channel, HBO) in addition to new unjustified activation charges. After speaking with several CSRs I was told I couldn’t speak to a supervisor but one would call me but couldn’t tell me when. Four hours later I got the call and 30 minutes after that the charges were reversed.
Should have gotten a CAT scan instead of X-Rays
above posted in error
@pestie:
“Gaping Vagina” will be my next user name on Gawker.com.
Weird. I have a copy of my MRI that shows the tumor (benign thank you very much) in my sinus cavity near the front of my brain. I framed it- it makes an excellent conversation piece. The doctor laughed when I asked for it and handed it right over.
Hmm, was your cat underage? Maybe it’s considered “kitty porn” (thanks, I’ll be here all week. Please up your waitresses).
This seems bogus to me. Recently, I’ve been dealing with my sick dog who has cancer, heart conditions, etc. My regular vet takes x-rays and gladly gives them to me so that I can take them around town to specialists so as to not cause more trauma to both my dog and my pocketbook. All I need do is call the front desk and say, “Hey, I’m coming to get those x-rays.” And they say, “Sure thing! They’ll be waiting for you!”
@testsicles:
seriously–you actually buy x-ray film?? If you brought it to me to use, I’d laugh in your face. There are many different types and sizes of film (and screens and x-ray cassettes) and they are NOT all interchangeable. Every facility has their own equipment for a reason–they know how to make a quality image with it! and FYI–film expires. But it makes a great straight edge when painting a room.
@eelmonger: I agree–poor taste to show a photo of a dead cat.
[www.avma.org]
Go here read, if you do not find your answer, then call the association and ask them. My guess is it varies from state to state. Call the licensing board and ask them as well.
Or take them on loan and bolt.
I would have loved to have seen a picture of your cat when he/she was alive. Curious who took the picture of your cat deceased? You or the vet staff?
So, have we confirmed the status of the cat in the post photo? Dead or alive? I’m waiting to be offended and I’m not in a patient mood!
When you have an x-ray done, you are not paying for the film itself. You are paying for the technical expertise of the tech, the machinery used to take it, the time spent by the hospital, and the information it can provide. The film (or, more likely these days as many hospitals are filmless, computer screens) isn’t yours. It’s part of the cost that the hospital covers.
The negatives to a photo shoot (wedding, school, any professional photography) belong to the photographer, not the customer. The rights to custom artwork belong to the artist. The actual x-rays belong to the hospital which took them unless there is another agreement in place (some states do grant them to the patient). In this case, they belong to the vet. I’m kind of disgusted (but not particularly surprised) that many have advocated stealing them simply because the vet won’t likely pursue legal action. Guess what? Target won’t sue you if you steal less than $25 worth of merchandise! Will you be taking advantage of this deal as well?
@eelmonger: I agree. I wouldn’t say I’m “offended” but I am disappointed. I would not like to have to add consumerist to my no-images filter. Please don’t do this again.
Here is the California Law, at least (I work for a vet and was looking it up – it’s how I found this site):
“BARCLAYS OFFICIAL CALIFORNIA CODE OF REGULATIONS
TITLE 16. PROFESSIONAL AND VOCATIONAL REGULATIONS
DIVISION 20. VETERINARY MEDICAL BOARD
ARTICLE 4. PRACTICE
This database is current through 11/02/07, Register 2007, No. 44
s 2032.3. Record Keeping; Records; Contents; Transfer.
c)(1) Radiographs are the property of the veterinary facility that originally ordered them to be prepared. Radiographs shall be released to another veterinarian upon the request of another veterinarian who has the authorization of the client. Radiographs shall be returned to the veterinary facility which originally ordered them to be prepared within a reasonable time upon request. Radiographs originating at an emergency hospital shall become the property of the next attending veterinary facility upon receipt of said radiograph(s). Transfer of radiographs shall be documented in the medical record.”
This was from the California Veterinary Medical Board’s website.
Opinions are like you-know-what, when they ain’t right, they stink. -Eric