Thanks, Keter!

Only thing to add is on step 2 is to narrow down your research in the call by going online first and checking the dealer's inventory. See if there's models you are looking for with the options you want. Most manufacturers have been unifying their inventory tracking online so you can see what's available. But don't hesitate to ask about inventory on the call as well since the dealer may have some fresh stock that has yet to be reflected online.

Excellent list. And don't ever buy Consumer Report's car buying help kits. Total waste of money because everything you need can be easily had online for free.

Great Info!

This is WAAAAAAAAAAY more complicated than it needs to be. Much simpler:

1)Using the internet as your guide, figure out exactly the price you want to pay. Edmunds.com and KBB are helpful here in determining Invoice and other charges to dealers.

2a) Call a couple dealers, offer your price and tell them to take it or leave it. If they don't give you exactly what you want, leave.

or

2b) Go to your local dealer and find the guy with all the volume awards. He works in bulk, not commission on individual deals, making him more likely to accept . Offer him your price and specs. He can take it or leave it.

Repeat until satisfied. Less games and BS. As the above article states, always be willing to leave, even over $50.

Find the car club online for the make and model you want. There will generally be a forum with with plenty of advice on purchasing that car along with one or two members who actually sell the vehicles and will get you the best deal. One such club is www.tdiclub.com for VW diesels.

This is an excellent list! However, I'm not so sure I agree with step #4. I think it could be skipped. I'd rather not deal with the hassle of having the dealer that I never want to deal with constantly calling me. And I'd feel guilty if I gave him/her a bogus phone number. I think the majority of step #4 can be done online, such as at edmunds.com.

If you know what car you want, I can vouch for Consumer Reports' car pricing service: [ec.consumerreports.org]

Costs $14, but you learn what the car is costing the dealer, and you can pad the price from there so the dealership can make the profit they need to stay in business. Then call around and see if they'll get close to your price. Was in an out of the dealership in a little over 2 hours when I last did this.

Simple: don't buy dealer options, only factory installed options. Then their MSRP's are already on the window sticker, and you're that much closer to being able to bargain. Remember -- no dealer options. Putting pinstripes on a MKZ looks tacky.

How can 90% of used cars have such a serious defect? That's akin to saying that 90% of the cars on the road have a serious defect. You not limiting yourself to looking at the sub-$1000 lot, are you?

It's even easier than has been described, with a lot less chasing around to car dealers over a typical large metropolitan area. Edmunds/KBB information, an email account and good credit is all you really need.

IME, until you are ready to pick up the car there's no real reason to physically visit or call a dealer by phone unless there's something about a particular model/feature you are not familiar with. Most dealerships have an internet sales department, or at the very least a sales associate who deals exclusively with such inquiries. It's a waste of time to play phone tag/sit on hold with various dealerships when you can simply email a them with your specifics. You define the terms of the deal and the winning dealership meets those stipulations. In some cases you can even do the whole financing process via email and fax as well.

No mention of trading in a car on this list. Conventional wisdom is that you don't tell the dealer that you are interested in trading your car in. They WILL ask, believe me. Of course, you want to look up on kbb.com (or elsewhere) to figure the rough value of your trade-in. Once you have nailed down an agreed upon price for your new car, THEN you talk about trading in your vehicle.

2. If you are a member of a Credit Union, call them and see if they have a car buying service. Many do have them these days. Many will even match or beat dealer prices. You can also hit online buying services like Cars Direct ([www.carsdirect.com]) to get price quotes. Odds are a buying service will be a dealer price.

6. If you're looking for a loan, hit your Credit Union first!!! They can usually beat most of your local banks on the interest rate. Take that to the dealer and give them the chance to beat it... NOT MATCH it. Dealer loan rates are not always guaranteed... I've known several people that have had dealers call them and tell them that their financing fell through and that they would either end up with a higher interest rate, need to find their own financing, or bring the car back. Most of the time you'll have fewer headaches with your own financing.

8. If you can, visit the dealer a few days before the end of the month. Many dealers give their sales people incentives for hitting sales goals. Sales people will be more likely to give you a better deal if they are trying to get a bonus for hitting a sales goal or their quota.

I have found that going through the dealerships Internet Sales Manager gives you a great price point for your discussions. Go to a cars.com or edmunds.com and pick out the car you want with options and they will email selected dealerships for you. Set up an email address for your car shopping and have them email you only (so you don't have to use your personal email) You now have some solid prices in hand to go to the dealership with and work with the saleperson personally.

@JKinNYC: You'd walk over $50? Wow, your time must not be worth very much if you'd go elsewhere and go through the whole process again over that little.

As for those that attempt to follow this "guide", I can only say "Good Luck", because you're going to need it it. And I sincerely hope you never need anything from the dealer after the fact, because coming in with that kind of attitude may get you a deal, but not much else.

Anyone used www.fightingchance.com? We're in the market for a new car and I've read a few good things about this service. Seems like a potentially good tool to have available, even if it does cost $40.

I've done plenty of research online already and we've taken test drives to get down to the model we want so now it's going to be about getting down to the numbers.

This guide is overly complicated.

Any car dealer worth its salt has an internet sales department. It's pretty simple, really. Price your car on Edmunds with options, and demand invoice from every dealer in the state, by e-mail. Demand kbb trade value on your trade. Tell them the first person to offer you gets it.

Eventually, you'll get that offer, then you use it to get matches from a place that has your color, etc.

I'm not sure all of this hardball about I need to be out of here by 3pm helps. Just get the best price.

@JKinNYC: You're right. WAY too complicated. I got a kick-ass deal on a new accord a couple months ago and I did it all over the phone. One you know what you want, ywou shouldn't have to go there to finish the job. Your willingness to hang up is scarier to them than your willingness to walk out of the dealership.

I got a good deal on a 07 civic ex and low financing, but the car had a scratch in it (interior) and I made them sign a slip for me to get it fixed. They replaced the scratched panel with a torn panel. Then when they replaced it a second time they put a dent in the car, which they fixed for free... They got my money for the car, but they'll never see a cent for service and maintenance over the life of the car.

I think the approach is fine for buying a used car, but overkill x10 for buying a new one.

Also, Best article picture ever...

Your bank or credit union has access to and probably keeps old copies (one or two weeks worth) of the Black Book guide by Hearst Publishing (google it). This, by far, gives you REAL prices- its market oriented, not 'national' like the Edmunds or Kelly books. I sat in a dealer with the Black Book Leasing book, priced a new Mustang GT convert in front of the salesman, and he took the price I gave him- he couldn't argue with it. This is the price guide your bank/lender will use in figuring your loan value for the car; its based on DEALER COSTS.

W

"6. Go get cash or a a pre-approved car loan for something less than the upper amount. Put the cash or check in a blank sealed envelope."

hahah, made it sound like a magic trick :) good tips though

uh, looking at 200+ cars and a month of time? figure in your hourly salary and see if it makes up for the savings. my guess is that for most, it doesn't.

I used www.fightingchance.com and was very happy with them. They supply detailed pricing information and outline what is essentially a reverse auction process for flushing out the best deal without having to step foot in a dealership until you've got the deal nailed down. It's pretty cheap (around $30 - $40) and included in the price is essentially unlimited phone consultation with the very nice and very cluefull guy who runs the site. I recommend them to everyone I know who is buying a new car.

@Covert7: I used www.fightingchance.com and was very happy with them. They supply detailed pricing information and outline what is essentially a reverse auction process for flushing out the best deal without having to step foot in a dealership until you've got the deal nailed down. It's pretty cheap (around $30 - $40) and included in the price is essentially unlimited phone consultation with the very nice and very cluefull guy who runs the site. I recommend them to everyone I know who is buying a new car.

I have used fightingchance.com and it is wonderful. I bought a 2007 toyota 4runner for under invoice using the information from fighting chance. It's definitely worth $40 if you can save thousands.

I disagree with a lot of Keter's advice. Why would anyone want to take a day off work and spend it in a car dealership? Bring a lunch??? There is no reason to be in a dealership for more than an hour or two. You tell them that if haven't agreed on a price in one hour you're leaving. I guarantee you will know the price you're paying by then.

With the amount of information available on the internet there is not reason to know the exact amount you want to pay for the car before you ever step foot in a dealership.

Here's how to get a great deal on a new vehicle...on the last Tuesday of the month email 10-15 internet managers of local or semi-local dealerships that sell the car you want with the option package you want and say "Please give me your best offer on this car, I will be buying this car by the end of the month from one of the numerous Brand X dealerships in this area. I am sending this email to several other dealerships and the best offer will get my business" or something similar. You will hear back from a few with offers and some offers will be very surprising in a good way. Dealerships need to meet monthly quotas and make more money meeting those incentives then on the profit of a new car. So some dealerships will be will to take a loss on a new car in order to meet their monthly incentives...

advantage YOU!!

COVERT7 - Yes, I've used FightingChance previously and was very happy with the experience. Basically, I narrowed down my options to a Honda Odyssey EXL and a Chrysler T&C Limited. The info they gave was good, I especially liked the Dealer Holdback info, the sales data and the "likelihood of getting a good deal" info. I ended up buying the Honda for $1600 under MSRP and was very happy with the process. I only went into the dealer to finalize the paperwork and take the car home, everything else was via phone and fax. This was almost 5 years ago.

Regarding this post, I would add that most banks & CU's should issue a "Not greater than" check when you preapprove. That makes the process much easier and can make for some interesting looks from the sales guy at the dealer when they realize that you might have been prepared to spend more than you ended up spending.

Familiarize yourself with the various option codes for the model that you want. I simply faxed all the local dealers with the vehicle I was looking for, including colors and option codes. There was very little room for them to get creative when I was so specific about what I wanted. Know what you want, say what you want, be firm but be nice. Let them know that you're not interested in wasting their time, you just want a very specific vehicle at a very fair price.

The advice to call your insurance company beforehand is good, too, but for a different reason - you need to know how much more/less your insurance is going to be so that you can make a good financial decision.

I agree with those that say this is overkill. If you have the kind of time on your hands you need to follow these steps consider a second job so you can buy an even nicer car.

I bought my last car on e-bay, sight unseen. Ebaying a car is not for eveyone, but it worked great, I got a much better deal then I could have elsewhere and it was an easy hassle free transaction. Two points to take away from the list that I agree with are be prepared to finance yourself and deal with the dealer's internet slaes manager (if possible). Both these cut through the bullshit, especially the internent sales rep, because they get people who email them and say "give me a quote" and if they don't or try to reel you in then they lose the potential sale, unlike the guy who's just taking drive up traffic at the dealer.

Is this satire? Mysterious sealed envelope, weekday morning, multiple anonymous phone calls and dealership visits. Asinine.

nthing the advice to NOT set foot on the dealer lot until you have the price down to the penny. If I am going to wait for hours for them to make a decision on an offer, I am going to get my grass mowed or my gutters cleaned while I do it. Sitting there in a plastic chair and waiting for a salesman to keep running to Oz to talk to the Finance Wizard? No way.

Also, some of the best advice I have ever received is to know that if you make an offer and you can actually make it off the lot, your offer really was too low.

"6. Go get cash or a a pre-approved car loan for something less than the upper amount. Put the cash or check in a blank sealed envelope."

This is one of the worst pieces of advice I have ever heard.

For example, you get a car loan at 4.9% for 60 months. Yet the dealer (or their finance company GMAC, Chrysler Financial etc..) May have 3.9% for 60 months + a rebate or bonus cash.

But you just applied for and got a check from the outside financing company and now you are paying more for the vehicle because you just turned it into a straight cash deal. Your loss, banks gain. Good Job!

Also, please don't try this at Scion or Saturn. You will waste your time moreso than the author wants you to.

Good luck getting this to work where the cars come off the lot. When we looked at Honda Odysseys the dealer basically said take it or there is another person lined up behind us. Now, if you go for other brands, where the cars stay on the lots for a long time *cough* Chevy, Ford *cough* then you can negotiate. I did something like the above to get my Full Sized Chevy PU a few years back. Couldn't do it to get a Camry or the Odyssey.

When we bought my wife's '03 Accord we pretty much did all our dealing via email. I got info from several local dealers within about a 30-mile radius, and once I had my best price I even contacted a dealer 2-hours away in another state in case they had better pricing in another region; he said he might be able to beat the price by $100, but that wasn't worth making the trip.

One thing that helped was we knew exactly what we wanted in terms of trim level and options, so we knew we were looking at apples-to-apples comparisons. If you know exactly what you want on the front end, then it's easier to be non-emotional and walk away if you have to; you just go look for the same car somewhere else. It's when you aren't committed to a certain car to begin with that they start to get you emotionally drawn into things, and it's tough to back out.

Two other items from back when I bought my 2000 Impala:

1) I knew exactly how I wanted to option my car out, and I got online and found exactly what I wanted in a dealer's inventory...600 miles away. But considering this was a city I travel to fairly often, that didn't put me off, so I contacted the dealer and got them to quote me a price. I found out I could order the car locally for the same or less money, which is what I ended up doing, and I KNOW I'm much happier with the car having gotten exactly what I wanted versus being steered to something they might have had in their inventory at the time. If you're the type of person who keeps a car for several years, I'd recommend looking into ordering exactly what you want/need.

2) Financing-wise I went through an online service (that has since been folded into Capitol One auto finance) that basically pre-qualifies you for a loan, and sends you a "blank" check that's good for a set dollar range. The check is valid for something like 45 days, and if you end up not using it for some reason you simply don't use the check. I used this in 2000 and it worked great, as their interest rate was better than I could get locally. When we bought my wife's '03 we got another blank check, but the dealer was able to get us a rate that was better, so we went that route. I can't vouch for Capitol One since they've taken over, but from what I can see online the program looks to be the same.

I just used my credit union's free car buying service. Tell the buyer what you want, he goes out and finds the best price. He picks up the car, brings it to the credit union where you've already taken care of the loan and gotten a good interest rate. He shows you all the features of the car, you say "thanks" and leave with your new car and a nice little gift basket. Mine had car washing supplies and little chocolates in the shape of cars. The only way to buy a car imo. Zero headaches.

Holy shit, I can't believe some of the trouble people go through to buy a car. I bought my first car at 20, in a couple hours, with zero problems. I only have one tip:

If you want a new car, BUY A PURE PRICED VEHICLE.

You can't get screwed if you're not playing the game. The atmosphere will be friendlier, lower pressure, and you can make sure you're comfortable with the vehicle.

Eh. I went through my Volkswagen enthusiast club and picked up my GTI for $500 over invoice, no BS. There's a few people who are in the club who sell cars. Sure, I had to go pick it up, but I made a fun summer trip out of it and had a fun time visiting friends in that part of the country.

The salesguy sold a fair number of cars to enthusiasts that way -- he got educated buyers who he didn't have to spend a ton of time assisting, and the buyers knew they were being treated fairly.

(There's little wiggle room in pricing on VWs these days, at least the Golf/Rabbit/GTI/New Beetle/Jetta class, so $500 over invoice is a very fair deal).

Great guy. I'd have recommended him to others if he hadn't switched to a Hyundai dealer. I asked him why and he told me that he didn't have opportunities for advancement at the VW place. Too bad... he really was a fellow enthusiast. Maybe he'll get back to VW sales someday.

Moral: Be educated and work with one of the rare sales types who will treat you with respect, not try to rip you off. Hard to find? Sure. Worth it? Yep.

If you can't do what I did, try a car broker service or work with the fleet/internet dept.

One thing we're doing when we look for a new car is to load up our trunk like we would for a week at the beach and then put everything in the trunk of the new car. With an infant, the amount of stuff you need is insane (Pack-n-Play, diapers, etc.). If it doesn't fit easily, the car goes off the list.

Interestingly enough, we hit upon this strategy because my Honda Civic has more cargo room than my wife's Subaru Forrester.

I agree with the others who said the steps outlined are too complicated.

Step 1: Decide what you can actually AFFORD, not what you want.
Step 2: Find a car that fits your budget and that you can live with.
Step 3: Offer the dealer, doesn't matter which one unless you have some preference, the OUT THE DOOR price you wish to pay. If they don't take it, walk out, go try another dealer.

If you cannot get the price you want then maybe you're not being realistic about the price or maybe the car is a hot model and no one is discounting it yet. The 'net is your friend when it comes to seeing what cars should sell for.

Always deal in out the door price numbers, not base, dealer prep, ADP, blah, blah, blah. Only the OTD number matters. If you want to pay $20k OTD they can charge you $1 for the car and $19,999 for dealer mark up if it makes them feel good but you pay the same OTD.

Never ever be afraid to walk out if you're not comfortable with the sale situation or terms. It's your money, not their's.

paying cash isn't that big a deal in terms of a gaining you a discount, the dealership would rather sell you the car with store financing, so by paying cash you're closing that revenue stream for them ... so the usual response to "i'll pay cash" is "who cares?" they can make more money selling the car at the same price to someone who finances from the store

but ...
having your own financing before you hit the lot is always a good idea though

i also recommend going through Edmunds and dealing with the Fleet or Internet Department ... also avoid the "auto mall" , if you're worried about spam from dealers use your junk email account ... also be friendly, nobody wants to bend over backwards for a jerk but be ready to walk away

i did a little bit of homework, was patient, emailed and called a lot, tried to get my local dealer to match what the guy 20 miles away was offering and then bought a "soft market" car but got it for under invoice and beat the price (by a whole $12) of some guy online who claimed to have gotten the same car for the "lowest price in the country"

but do your homework on the internet first, save the impulse buying for Target

also check to see if your company offers any programs like Ford Partner (most due) or DCRewards (Chrysler Jeep) ... you can usually beat that price on your own but it's a good back up plan if you want some hot car

That seems overly complicated. My strategy - go to dealer, take test drive tell sales guy I will shop around but since he gave test drive he'll get change to match price (as it happened they were no even close)

Write down exact make/model/color.

Call every dealer within 50 miles (in SF bar area that a a lot) and ask for "internet sales manager" - get quotes by email or fax - if it's not in writing it doesn't count.

I got to my target price (dlr invoice) in 2 days and three days later was $4000 below that on my new Volvo last year. Since I had a final total by fax from the dealer I could go with the exact amount, sign the paperwork and drive off - time in dealership was about an hour and there was no hassle at all.

Most of these things are BS from my experiences. A lot of dealers know that they do in fact have the upper hand, and waving an envelope of money isn't going to make them beg you to buy a car at a lower price. Most dealer's won't give you prices over the phone besides the retail price. You can ask all you want but they'll tell you to come into the dealership and they'll "see what they can do for you" or something to that effect. The best thing you can do is research what these cars go for, know that the dealers are willing to negotiate, pick a model, a price, and stick with it because in the end the salesman wants to make a sale, and as long as your price isn't completely ridiculous they'll come down and meet you there.

Holy crap! I can't imagine the hundreds of dollars worth of my time these steps would cost me. There are easier ways to do this for a new car.

1. Get pre-arranged financing.
2. Research to find out a fair price for the vehicle you want.
3. Go to ebay and find the new car you want listed by a dealer on ebay motors with a 'buy it now' price at or below your target price.
4. Test drive it. Buy it on ebay to lock in the price if you like it.
5. Pay and drive away.

The ebay price basically rolled in all of the rebates, incentives, customer cash, etc. I've heard of people getting screwed out of these because of some dubious rule or something. Not a problem for my purchase.

The whole process took me 3-4 hours of my time. No stress, no sleazy dealer. The truck was in a separate part of the lot (it had been test driven once and had about 6 miles on it) because I dealt with the fleet/internet sales guy. He wasn't pushy, offered me some options like a warranty, alarm, financing, etc. I decided to buy the bed liner from them and that was it.

Note, the ebay price did not include tax, title, and license.

I live in a large city so there were plenty of options. Smaller cities may not be so easy. If I had followed the steps from the article above, I'm sure I could have gotten maybe another few hundred off my price. But that would have taken me at least 2 or 3 valuable Saturdays and a few tanks of gas in driving around and comparison shopping. No thank you.

How about test driving the car? And if you do test drive the car do you give that dealership some slack on price in return for the test drive? That would be only fair.

I used some of the same tactics when I bought my used car from a dealership. I have a suggestion that hasn't been mentioned yet, though.

If your used car of choice won't be covered by the original warranty, consider an aftermarket warranty. This is especially useful if you intend to keep the car for a long period of time. I'll keep mine for at least 4 years beyond the loan period.

In my case, the warranty cost $2,000 with no deductible and coverage until the value of the car at sale, or 100k miles, or till 6 years have passed. It's already paid out over $5k for dealership repairs, some of which were not a big deal but some to get my car running again. It's more than paid for itself.

@Myron.

Oh. Hell. No.

I test drove with Dealer A. I was going to buy from Dealer A, but the Finance Wookie never got around to returning my phone call about the OTD price. While I was waiting, I called another dealership who beat Dealer's price. Plus, Dealer B had a better reputation for service anyhow.

It's all about the OTD.

oops, should read, "Who beat dealer A's price."

Step number 10 from my experience and advise of sales friends in wrong. Do not go in with cash.

Problem is some dealers make money off financing. They want to look at the whole package: car costs, extras, trade in, and financing.

I've found it's best to dissect the transaction. Don't talk financing and "monthly payments." When asked about how you pay for it, say "it depends on the offer." If they ask if you will finance, say it depends on the terms. One time they offered zero percent. Zero precent is better than paying. Keep the focus on the actual cost of the car and let them think they'll make money off the trade in and finances. One time I got a dealer REALLY angry at me when I wrote a check. "I thought we had a deal for financing." I mentioned it wasn't on that white piece of paper that I agreed to finance. He was reluctant to go through with the deal, which was fine with me.

You 100% have to be able to walk on a deal. I don't understand why people are so emotionally attached to a large hunk of metal. Hummer or Hynduai gets you to the same place. Getting emotional places into the dealer's hand.

I have to reiterate about internet sales. I did my homework, checked Edmunds, got the Consumer Reports information, etc. I established what I wanted and how much I was willing to pay. I then went through all the local dealers on the internet and by phone. The dealer I bought from sent me a list of all the relevant cars he had in stock, their equipment, colors, and prices. It came with an e-mail guaranteeing the prices quoted. The prices were more than competitive and exactly in line with what I wanted to pay (which I had not disclosed to the dealer).

When I went in to make the purchase, I dealt with the fleet manager, was given the price quoted and was not pressured to buy any dealer extras. No phony sales manager approvals, no games, no bogus extra fees. This was my absolute best car buying experience ever.

Of course this dealer was one of the first in the country to offer no haggle pricing, so I guess they were inclined to honesty.

The really easiest thing to do is work for a car company, and get their price. The next easiest is to wed into a car company employee's family, and get the same price. You could avoid the marriage by befriending an employee, and get his price plus a negligible markup.

On a serious note, consider the time you have to invest in your dealings. Depending on your salary and the price of the car, you could cross the point where it's beneficial just to pay sticker and get out of there (yeah, there really are people out there that don't need to scrimp and save every penny, but I'm not one of them yet).