A Walmart security guard demanded a woman hand over her baby at checkout, thinking it might have been a baby that was reported missing in the store, according to a Myspace post by the mother, Stacy Arrington of Parkville, MD (pictured):
“They are trying to tell me that Ava is not my child. She started fussing so I began taking her out of the seat. The whole time this security guard is asking me to “give him the baby”. FUCK YOU! There was no way I was handing her over! I tried to walk away, leaving her car seat, the diaper bag, even my wallet…they blocked me! I am screaming for them to get the fuck away from me. I start crying, sobbing, just holding Ava near me. Everytime the security guard put his hands near her I shifted away. Ava is screaming at the top of her lungs by this time. I am screaming to get a manager. I started telling them everything I could think of to prove she is mine. Her birthmark, hospital card in the diaper bag, my ID in my wallet…pictures of her in my wallet. I am screaming that I am going to sue the FUCK out of them and God help them when my husband and father hear about this!
Finally the manager realizes they have the wrong person….. he gives me everything for free… he puts the bags in my card and I basically run out of the store, still holding Ava. I couldnt get out of that parking lot fast enough.”
We’re getting really sick of these stories of unlawful detention by stores. Your rentacop badge doesn’t make you God.
September 10, 2007 – Monday [Stacy Arrington] (Thanks to Amanda!)
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@Sudonum: Wow, too lazy to read even a short wiki article. Here’s the part you missed:
“All states other than North Carolina permit citizen arrests if a felony crime is witnessed by the citizen carrying out the arrest, or when a citizen is asked to help apprehend a suspect by the police. The application of state laws varies widely with respect to misdemeanor crimes, breaches of the peace, and felonies not witnessed by the arresting party.”
Good lord, all you had to do was to not be too lazy to read TWO sentences instead of one. Too much to expect of you I guess.
More from you: “So according to you own post in order for someone to make a lawful citizens arrest, the citizen must have WITNESSED the crime.”
Um, no. According to the fact that you’re too lazy to read the second sentence, you assumed that. Laws vary, but it’s not REQUIRED that the citizen witness the crime, as you attempt to assert.
I would have been calm for a bit…But I things progressed the way they did, I too would be pissed as hell.
@Sudonum: And lots of people carry concealed in Florida too. It would not take long for that dogooder busy body to get shot.
I find it amusing that no one even considers the fact that she might have presented a biased testimony. i mean, seriously? You have a run in with a guard at walmart, it frazzles you, you go home and complain about it on your web page. You might forget some details, or omit them, that are fairly important, like maybe the guard did try rationally at first to detain her for questioning and she, as some so beautifully put it, attempted to give him a “face full of pepper spray”. IF, and that’s a big if, this story is 100% true, then yeah, the guard’s an idiot. But I sincerely doubt that.
@killavanilla: You can bend over and give up your rights as much as you want. There are others who feel that they’re actually worth standing up for.
Oh, and the right to not be unlawfully detained or searched is every bit as important as the right to be treated equally on basis of race.
Take your damn straw man and burn him.
@dbeahn: I highly suggest that you not try anything, for your own good. People tend to panic when cornered unexpectedly, especially when they don’t know why or don’t know who is doing it.
It is not worth your life to butt into something that you shouldn’t be involved in. Cops will tell you this too — don’t try to apprehend even someone who you know did something wrong. Call in the police instead.
Besides, if you are directly threatened or anyone other than a policeman orders you to stop and/or come with them, or someone attempts to take you somewhere without your consent, you may legally use force to escape, so your ‘target’ might well injure you, and do you really want to live with that?
After reading posts by THISAINTSWEETTEA & DBEHAN, all I can say is that I weep for humanity. Thankfully, their posts are immortalized here for all of internetity. They will stand by their posts proudly, while others shake their heads sadly and turn away. I’m not sure they’ll ever understand why.
For all of you who seem to think that the only possible choices here are “fascism & safe kids” vs. “anarchy and dead babies” I have one phrase for you: false dichotomy.
[en.wikipedia.org]
The correct action for the store employees was a middle ground that did not violate law but still kept everyone safe. Because they did not do that, they will lose a lawsuit. And those of you suggesting that you’d do the same (or more) than the rent-a-cop, you’d lose too. And you wouldn’t even be heroes for it. The true hero would be the person who explained the situation to mothers WITHOUT trying to snatch away the babies, and who calmly called police and tailed anyone refusing to leave the store. THAT person would save the child’s life without the awful compromises that some of the other posters here are so willing to embrace.
It’s always a wonder that so many legal arguments about criminal theory get thrown around on a consumer blog/comment thread.
Anyhow, here’s my two cents: Assuming that the security guard asked the mother to hand the child over, the mother was under no obligation to comply and her reaction doesn’t seem particularly extreme, considering her unawareness of the invocation of Code Adam (a program which, it’s important to note, hasn’t seen nearly as many headlines or public service announcements since AMBER alert came about). Code Adam doesn’t obligate any person to hand over a potentially wayward child to a store employee. It only requires that the employees use reasonable measures to delay the adult without putting anyone at risk.
IMO, if the security guard did ask for the baby to be handed over, he clearly didn’t consider that making such a demand actually places all parties at considerably greater risk. Detaining by simply asking the adult to step aside for a moment until management/LEO appears is both sufficiently vague and significantly safer.
The assumption that all people act rationally when asked to hand over their children is absolutely ridiculous.
Imagine, hypothetically, that the baby was indeed the missing child who instigated the Code Adam – the guard would have created a situation where the kidnapper could threaten harm in order to get away. In comparison, a true mother’s frightened reaction to a request to hand over her child without having been offered any reason doesn’t seem extreme at all. Even if the announcement had gone over the intercom, (to reiterate a point previously stated several times), a simple reminder that the store sought to ensure the safety of its customers should have been given and could potentially have instantly defused a very tense situation.
It’s also worth noting that few, if any, Walmarts display any information about Code Adam policies so that shoppers will actually know what “Code whatever” refers to.
@Rob916: “False imprisonment? You are on a private property, they have every legal right to “detain” you. “
You are incorrect; private property does not contain magical powers that permit random detention or otherwise exist outside the common law that all are bound to follow.
Your comment history indicates you’re relatively new here, but this particular topic and the more-myth-than-reality of shopkeeper’s privilege have been discussed into the ground and then that space of ground has been stomped upon until a giant hole opening a new passage to the other side of the world.
OK, first it was, “Why don’t you just hand over your receipt to the wannabe cop at the door ’cause it’s easier than asserting your legal rights?”
NOW it’s, “Why don’t you just hand over your BABY to the wannabe cop at the door ’cause it’s easier than arguing?”
Sheesh! Why don’t you guys just carry a tube of K-Y and a spare rubber glove so Mr. Would Be Homeland Security Guy doesn’t have to work bare-fingered when he wants to search for that MP3 player Electronics says is missing?
I see a lot of comments suggesting that Wal-Mart is fully within its rights to detain somebody without witnesses or other evidence that a crime has been committed by said person. Let us remember that Wal-Mart (and all of its employees) is treated as a civilian person under the law, no matter what the impression of a rent-a-cop might suggest. They simply do not have any authority that you or I don’t.
So suggesting that a civilian may forcefully stop another from moving somewhere freely is clearly slipping into Kafkaesque irrationality.
You may have opinions on what the woman and security guard should or shouldn’t have done, but if the story is somewhat correct (and I highly doubt Wal-Mart’s POV would change things THAT radically) then the security guard was the only one breaking the law.
If the cop was under the assumption that this baby was stolen, this lady seemed to be doing everything she could to fit the profile of a baby thief. I don’t know enough about the situation to judge, but I do know what I would do.
First I would calmly ask for the evidence they had that led them to suspect me. Then, IF I found their answer acceptable, I would ask what proof they would like and provide it if necessary. Under no circumstances would I actually allow someone to take my child.
Any attempt to do so, cop or not, would end very badly.
You need to do a poll on how many of these sick commenters DON’T have children. You’ll see that those who don’t have a mouthful to say about what happened here. And the poster that says “I’m sure babies get snatched in liberal stores and the media doesn’t report it” 1. So Wal-Mart is a Neo-Con store? 2. You need meds. Badly. And not chinese made lead filled flinstone vitamins, I mean MAJOR MEDS.
@aboyd: “The true hero would be the person who explained the situation to mothers WITHOUT trying to snatch away the babies, and who calmly called police and tailed anyone refusing to leave the store.”
So you believe stalking an innocent mother would be legal? Or are you suggesting telling a kidnapper that you’re onto them and then allowing them to leave is a good idea?
Yeah, both of those are excellent suggestions. Don’t keep the person in a public place, let them get the kid away where they can kill the primary witness. There’s a REASON that the Center for Missing and Exploited Children advocate STALLING a person that may have a stolen child with them – because it’s FAR less likely they will hurt the child in a public place with lots of people around. They’ve researched the statistics and determined that the best course of action is to attempt to stall the person if at all possible. If you have research that says letting them take the child and hoping you can “tail” them is statistically safer for the kid than what the Center for Missing and Exploited Children recommend, I’d be happy to read it.
I’m advocating that in a circumstance where a child is at risk, as a decent person, you should be willing to be inconvenienced for a few minutes. I weep for humanity because people like you apparently think a child’s life isn’t worth 15 minutes of your time.
@Woofer00: “IMO, if the security guard did ask for the baby to be handed over, he clearly didn’t consider that making such a demand actually places all parties at considerably greater risk. Detaining by simply asking the adult to step aside for a moment until management/LEO appears is both sufficiently vague and significantly safer.”
I agree. Somewhere along the line people seem to have missed that the guard did make mistakes. I’m just disagreeing with the people that keep posting “Know your rights! If you kidnap a kid, then a security guard can’t and shouldn’t stop you!”
@crankymediaguy: “Sheesh! Why don’t you guys just carry a tube of K-Y and a spare rubber glove so Mr. Would Be Homeland Security Guy doesn’t have to work bare-fingered when he wants to search for that MP3 player Electronics says is missing?”
So a child’s life is worth approximately the same as an MP3 player? That is, after all, the direct comparison you just made.
@Buran:
With all due respect, there is no strawman here.
Everytime a story hits the consumerist, folks trot out their ‘civil rights’.
The problem is that while they are your rights, some things are not a big deal.
Showing your receipt is not a big deal.
It doesn’t damage you in any way. It is not a sign of the coming apocolypse and it is not an example of the ‘man’ trying to get you. They want to send a message to shoplifters that a security person might ask to see their receipt. That’s it. The two second it takes to do so is a much easier path than fighting, getting into an altercation, and distracting the police from doing their jobs. Big deal!
I am all about consumer rights, but what is the point? Let’s say all companies drop their policy of checking receipts. Congrats, you’ve saved yourself 15 seconds. Thanks for putting up an hour long fight and wasting 59 minutes and 45 seconds of your day so honest Americans like me don’t have to feel ‘put upon’.
It’s a ridiculous argument that doesn’t make sense.
Show your receipt, go about your day. Civil rights struggles are only necessary when there is a reasonable wrong being perpetrated. What’s the big deal? NO ONE has been able to explain it to me without calling me names and implying that I am a ‘sheeple’.
Since you seem to have the time and patience to protest every single minor inconvenience like receipt checks, why don’t you show the same patience when explaing the whole point behind it?
It seems to me that you and others are making mountains over molehills.
And it is equally disturbing that many seem to accept one side of the story as fact without applying any logic to the situation. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? You seem to want to apply that to the complaining customer all day long, while denying the same to the security guards and companies in questions.
Justice is supposed to be blind and is not supposed to favor one side over the other. Why are you so willing and ready to assume that the complainant in every situation is ALWAYS correct, honest, and innocent?
Just like a person is an entity, under the law a corporation is as well. As is a security guard. ALL parties are supposed to be considered equal and innocent. Taking one’s side over another because you have a preconceived notion of truth or bias against a big company is not an example of fairness, but quite the opposite.
@jwissick: It’s semantics, and if she sues Walmart, that’s exactly what their lawyers will say. And the judge will side with them. Sorry, that’s just the way it is.
@pinkbunnyslippers: “It’s semantics, and if she sues Walmart, that’s exactly what their lawyers will say. And the judge will side with them. Sorry, that’s just the way it is.”
You can’t really reply to that comment. Remember, jwissick is the one that believe “innocent until proven guilty” doesn’t apply to everyone.
Apparently the rantings on myspace of a hysterical woman is all it takes to “prove” the guilt of a security guard as far as JW is concerned.
And while the rent-a-cop was wasting time harassing Stacy, how many other babies went out the door of the place without being stopped?
Furthermore, if you people think that this check is so necessary to prevent kids going off with people they don’t belong to, you’d better start lobbying for police to be stationed at every exit of every building to “baby check” each and every purported parent/guardian. See how far you get with that before you become the laughingstock of the nation.
@speedwell: There’s already a group doing that: [www.missingkids.com]
Feel free to try and make them a laughing stock and see how far you get.
Here’s a list of folks that disagree with you and don’t think they’re a laughingstock:
Code Adam Participants
This is a partial list of retailers and other public facilities that have implemented the Code Adam program. Also included in this list are states where the Attorney General and other law-enforcement agencies are helping by providing information about the program to their communities.
A R Financialâ„¢
A&P Group ®
AAFES ®
Abington (PA) Township Public Library
Academy ® Sports & Outdoors
Action City (Eau Claire, WI)
ADC, Inc.â„¢
Addison (IL) Park District ®
Adventure Science Museum (Nashville, TN)
Aiken (SC) Police Department
Akron(Summit (OH) County Public Library
Albermarle Hospital (Elizabeth City, NC)
Albertson’s Groceries ®
Alexandria (MN) Clinic
All American Home Center (Downey, CA)
Alpha Omega Protective Services (Northwood, OH)
Alpha Park (IL) Public Library
Alsip Nursery (Frankfort, IL)
American Guard Services
America’s Incredible Pizza Companyâ„¢
Amon Carter Museum (Fort Worth, TX)
Anchorage (AK) Police Department
Anchorage (AK) Public Lands Information Center
Anderson (IN) Public Library
Angel Medical Center (Franklin, NC)
Apartment Association of Greater Wichita (KS)
APIXâ„¢
Applebees ® (JS Ventures)
Aquarium of the Bay (San Francisco, CA)
Arizona Office of the Attorney General
Arizona Science Center
Arkansas Attorney General’s Office
Art Van Furniture
Asheville’s (NC) Fun Depot
Ashley Furniture Homestore ®
Athletic Club of Bend (OR)
Atlantic Health System
Atlantis (NY) Marine World ® (NY)
Austin (TX) Museum of Artâ„¢
Austin Woods (OH) Healthcare
B&B Hotelâ„¢ (N Richland, TX)
B&R Stores, Inc.
Babies R’Us ®
Baby Love Inc. (Sunrise, FL)
Bachrach Clothing, Inc.
Bal Harbour (FL) City Hall
Ballston (VA) Common Mall
Banana Republic ®
Baptist Children’s Hospital (Miami, FL)
Barnes & Noble Booksellersâ„¢
Barracks Road (VA) Shopping Center
Bartlett (IL) Public Library District
Bashas’â„¢
Basilica of Saint Mary (MN)
Bass Pro Shops Outdoor Worldâ„¢
Bay (MI) Regional Medical Center
Bay(Arenac ISD Career Center (Bay City, MI)
Bayonne (NJ) Public Library
Bayshore (NJ) Community Hospital
BCI Personal Development Centers
Beaman (MA) Memorial Public Library
Beaverton (OR) City Library
Becker (MN) Furniture World
Bed Bath and Beyond ®
Belk Inc.
Bella Vista (AZ) Sheriff’s Office
Bellizzi Restaurant (Larchmont, NY)
Bell’s Nursery ®
Belz Factory Outlet World (Las Vegas, NV)
Ben & Ari’s Family Entertainment Center (Fishers, IN)
Ben Elias Industries
Bennett Lumber Products, Inc
Best Buy ®
Bethel A.M.E. Church (Milwaukee, WI)
Beuhler Food Markets, Inc.
Big Bear Sports Center (Billings, MT)
Big Lots!â„¢
Big Sandy Superstore
Big Wheel Family Roller Skating Center
Big Y Foods, Inc
Bill Collins Fordâ„¢
Billings (MT) Hardware
BiLo Foods
BI(LO, LLC
Blain Farm & Fleet Stores
Blaisdell Center
Blimpie ® Subs & Salads (Chattanooga, TN)
Bloomington (IN) Hospital Warehouse
Bloomington (IN) Public Library
Blue Tulip
Bobtail Ice Cream Company
Bon Marcheâ„¢
Books(A(Million
Boondocks Fun Center (Meridian, ID)
Boone (IA) County Hospital
Borders Books & Music ®
Borders ® (HI)
Borough of Glassboro (NJ)
Bo’s Family Entertainment (Hudson, NC)
Boscov’s Department Store, LLC
Branch Brook Company
Brandwine Hundred Library (New Castle, DE)
Bread and Company (Nashville, TN)
Bright Beginnings (Florence, KY)
Bristol Park (CA) Medical
Broadlawns (IA) Medical Center
Broken Arrow Electric Supply, Inc.
Brooks Memorial Hospital (NY)
Brookshire Grocery Company
Broome County (NY) Public Library
Buffalo Grove (IL) Park District
Bureau of Facilities Management, State of Virginia
Burger King ® (Alma, MI)
BurkeView Hauling, Inc.â„¢
Burlington Coat Factory Storesâ„¢
Burns Park (AR) Athletic Association
Butterfield (IL) Park District
Buttons and Bows
Buttonwood Park Zoo (New Bedford, MA)
Byrd (LA) Regional Hospital
Cabela’s ®
Caccitore’s Foods
Cal Skate GT (Grand Terrace, CA)
Caldwell Zoo (Tyler, TX)
Calgary Science Centre (Alberta, Canada)
Camp Tamarancho (Fairfax, CA)
Care Coalition (Selma, AL)
CarMax, Inc.â„¢
Carousel Resort Hotel & Condominiums
Cedar Park (TX) Public Library
Centennial United Methodist Church (Roseville, MN)
CentraCare Clinic Women & Children
Central (CT) Coast YMCA
Central Bucks Family YMCA (Doylestown, PA)
Central Christian Church (NV)
Chadwick & Traceâ„¢
Chester Lanes LLC
Chicago (IL) Museum of Science and Industry
Children’s Museum of Manhattan (NY)
Children’s Museum of Eau Claire (WI)
Children’s Museum of Houston (TX)
Chillie Freeze
Chippokes Plantation State Park (Surrey, VA)
Christ Outreach Deliverance Center (Bellwood, IL)
Christ Outreach Ministries (Chicago, IL)
Christmas Tree Shops, Inc.
Christ’s Church of the Capital District (NY)
Chuck E. Cheeseâ„¢
Cincinnati (OH) Art Museum
Circuit Cityâ„¢
City of Ames (IA) Parks and Recreation
City of Ankeny (IA) Parks and Recreation
City of Benicia (CA)
City of Cannon Beach (OR)
City of Cape Coral (FL)
City of Coconut Creek (FL)
City of Conroe (TX) Parks and Recreation
City of Covina (CA)
City of Folsom (CA)
City of Grandview (MO)
City of Grandview (MO) Parks and Recreation
City of Lakeland (FL) Aquatics
City of Las Cruces (NM)
City of Lawrence (KS) Parks and Recreation
City of Lowell (AR)
City of McKinney (TX)
City of Omaha (NE) Parks & Recreation
City of Phoenix (AZ)
City of Phoenix (AZ) Parks and Recreation
City of Phoenix (AZ) Police Department
City of Pigeon Forge (TN) Parks and Recreation
City of Raleigh (NC) Parks and Recreation
Clearlake (CA) Cinema
Cleveland (OH) Metroparks Zoo
Clix of Greater Long Island (NY)
Columbus (GA) Civic Center
Columbus (OH) Metro Library
Columbus (OH) Metropolitan Library
Columbus (OH) Metropolitan Library
Comfort Suites ® (Windsor Locks, CT)
Commonwealth of Puerto Rico Public Buildings Authority
Community Health Center of Snohomish (WA)
Community Health Services (Hartford, CT)
Conner Prarie Museums (Fishers, IN)
Cordova (CA) Recreation and Park District
Cornerstone Chapel (Leesburg, VA)
Cosley (IL) Zoo
Costco ® (Issaquah, WA)
Coyote Bar & Grill
Craft Warehouse ® (Meridian, ID)
Cross Country (NY) Shopping Center
Crossroads (MO) Regional Medical Center
Crossroads (TX) Mallâ„¢
Crossroads Mall (Greenville, TX)
Crown Coliseum (Fayetteville, NC)
Crowne Plaza Hotel ®
Crystal Lake (IL) Library
D & F Productionsâ„¢
Daffy’s ®
Dan’s Gift Shop (Garden Grove, CA)
Dave and Buster’s
DaVinci Science Center (Allentown, PA)
Deals (Crystal Lake, IL)
Definitely Learning Child Care Center
Department of Homeland Security
Department of Social & Health Services (Yakima, WA)
Department of the Family (ADSEF) (San Juan, PR)
Designer Stone ®
Detroit (MI) Zoological Society
Developmental and Forensic Pediatrics PA (Fayetteville, NC)
Dick’s Sporting Goods ®
Dierbergs Markets, Inc.
Dillards
Dills Best Building Centers, Inc.
DirectBuy of Chantilly (VA)
Discovery Center Museum
Disney Stores
DKNY ®
Dollar General ® (Angie, LA)
Dominicks Finer Foods (Crystal Lake, IL)
Downers Grove (IL) Park District
Dr. John Warner Hospital (Clinton, IL)
Duckwall(Alco Storesâ„¢
Durham (CA) Recreation and Park District
Eagleton (KY) Federal Courthouse
East Carolina University (Greenville, NC)
Easton ® Town Center (Columbus, OH)
Eiteljorg Museum of American Indians and Western Art (Indianapolis, IN)
El Dorado Hills (CA) Community Services District
Elements & Botanicals Ltd
Elk Grove (CA) Community Services District
Ellen’s Place (Garland, TX)
Embassy Suites Hotels ® (Orlando, FL)
EMCOR Group, Inc.
Escambia County (FL) School District
Ethan Allen Stores ®
Evolution Family Fitness (Tampa, FL)
Factory Card Outletâ„¢
Fairchild Tropical Botanical Gardens (Coral Gables, FL)
Faith Assembly of God (McComb, MS)
Family Chiropractic (Langhorne, PA)
Family Identification Services ®
Famous Footwearâ„¢
FAO Schwarz ®
Fast Signs ®
Federal Protective Service
Federal Protective Service
FireLake Discount Foodsâ„¢
First Alert Search and Rescue
First Assembly of God (Raleigh, NC)
First National Bank (Omaha, NE)
First State Bank
Flandrau Science Center and Planetarium
Florida Sate Hospital (Chattahoochee, FL)
Flower Factory ® (Columbus, OH)
Flower Factory ® (Columbus, OH)
Food Circus Supermarkets, Inc.
Food Lion LLC
Forest City Enterprises, The Mall at Robinson (PA)
Forman Mills ®
Fort Lawn (SC) Community Center
Fort Worth ISD
Fortunoff ®
Franco’s Athletic Club
Frenchtown (MI) Square Mallâ„¢
Fry’s Electronicsâ„¢
Fry’s Food and Drugâ„¢
Fun In Motion (F.I.M.)â„¢
Fun Spot Skating Center (Belleville, IL)
Fun Unleashed (Bellefonte, PA)
Funway USA ®
G.I. Joe’s, Inc. SM
G.WIZâ„¢
G2H Ace Homecenter
GameOn Family Entertainment Center (Phoenix, AZ)
Gander Mountainâ„¢ (Forest Lake, MN)
Gap Inc. ®
Garden Ridge, L.P.
Gart Sports (Billings, MT)
Gaston County (NC) Health Department
Genesys (MI) Regional Medical Center
Genoa (IL) Park District
Georgia Tech Campus Recreation Center
Gertrude Ford Center for the Performing Arts
Giant Eagle ®
Gibson General Hospital
Gilbert (AZ) Police Department
Good Shepard Medical Center (Longview, TX)
Goodwill Stores
Google Inc.â„¢
Gordman’s Department Storeâ„¢
Gordmans
Gordy’s True Value ®
Grapevine Surgicare
Great River Regional Library (St. Cloud, MN)
Greater Regional Hospital (Creston, IA)
Green Valley Baptist Church (Henderson, NV)
Greene Memorial Hospital (Xenia, OH)
Greenhaven Cabana Club North (Sacramento, CA)
Greentree (PA) Sportsplex
Grizzly Jack’s Grand Bear Resort (IL)
Grotto Pizza (Nassau, DE)
Guardone Security ®
Guilderland (NY) YMCA
H. Lee Moffitt Cancer Center (Tampa, FL)
Half Price Books ®
Hamilton (CN) Health Sciences
Hamilton (NJ) Township
Hammes Notre Dame (IN) Bookstore
Hampton Bays (NY) Public Library
Hands on Discovery Children’s Museum (IN)
Hangin’ Outback with Dingo and Friends
Hannaford Bros. ®
Hannaford Shop and Save Supermarketsâ„¢
HANNspree (CA)
Happy Joe’s Restaurant
Harmons City Inc
Harmons City, Inc. (UT)
Harps Food Stores, Inc.
Harps Food Stores, Inc.
Hatton Industries Securitiesâ„¢
Hawaii Attorney General’s Office
Healthbridge Fitness Center
Heavenly Airâ„¢
HEB ® Grocery Stores
Heinen’s Fine Foods
HelpMate Services, Inc
HH Greg Appliances, Inc
Hidalgo (TX) Police Department
Historical Society of Western Pennsylvania
Hobby Lobby ®
Hollywood Park ® (Crestwood, IL)
Home Depot ®
Hope Evangelical Free Church (Springfield, IL)
Hospital Damas (PR)
HRCâ„¢
Hugo’s Grocery Stores
Hum’s Hardware & Rental, Inc. (Little Rock, AR)
Huntington (NY) Public Library
Hutchinson (KS) Public Library
Iceland Arena
Ident-A-Kid of Mississippi, Inc.
IFB Optical Services (Newport Richey, FL)
IGA Marketplace ®
Illinois Department of Natural Resources
Imaginariumâ„¢
Incredible Pizza Company
Indianapolis (IN) Museum of Art
Indianapolis Museum of Art
Ingles Markets, Inc.â„¢
International Association for the Leisure & Entertainment Industry (IALEI)
Intradeco, Inc.
IPC International Corporation (Salt Lake City, UT)
J.C. Penneyâ„¢
J.P. Igloo (Ellenton, FL)
Jacobson’s (Winterpark, FL)
Jax Outdoor Gear (Fort Collins, CO)
Jeff Anderson Regional Medical Center (Meridian, MI)
Jewel(Osco ®
Jewish Community Center of Greater Kansas City (KS)
Jillian’s Entertainmentâ„¢
Jody’s Music Center (Richmond, VA)
Joseph(Beth Booksellers (Pittsburgh, PA)
Jumpin Jacks Spacewalk (Monroe, LA)
Kaiyou Shin Kai Karate School ®
Kane Realty Corporation
KB Toysâ„¢
Kenema (MD) District Association
Kennewick (WA) General Hospital
Kids Furniture Factoryâ„¢
KidSenses Children’s InterActive Museumâ„¢
Kidz Kare Enterprise
Kidz Variety Store SM
Kidzu Children’s Museum (Chapel Hill, NC)
Kindred Hospital (Dayton, OH)
King’s Daughters Medical Center (Brookhaven, MS)
Kirschman’s ®
Klamath County (OR) Sheriff’s Office
Klickitat Valley Health Services (Goldendale, WA)
Kmartâ„¢
Kohl’s ®
Kroger Company ® (Atlanta, GA)
K(VA(T Food Stores, Inc ®
L.E. Phillips Memorial Public Library (Eau Claire, WI)
L.L. Bean Factory Storeâ„¢
L.L. Bean Kidsâ„¢
L.L. Beanâ„¢
La Crescenta (CA) Sheriff’s Department
LaBonne’s (Naugatuck, CT)
Laconia (NH) Parks & Recreation
Lake County (IN) Public Library System
Lake County Public Library (IN)
Las Vegas (NV) Clark County Library District
Lawrence (KS) Public Library
Lawton (OK) Indian Hospital
Lazar Skate Play Palace
Leavenworth (KS) Parks & Recreation
Lehigh Valley (PA) Zoo
Lemont (OH) Park District
Levittown (NY) Public Library
Libertyville (IL) Parks and Recreation Department
Licking Memorial Hospital (Newark, OH)
Life Time Fitness ®
LifeCenter Plus (Hudson, OH)
Limited Brands, Inc. ®
Linens-N-Things ®
Lion County Safari, Inc. ®
Lisle (IL) Park District
Little Elm (TX) Public Library
Little Flower Catholic School (Indianapolis, IN)
Living Spaces Furniture (CA)
Loblaw Companies Ltd.
Lofino Food Stores, Inc.
Logomotion Embroidery Company, Inc.â„¢
Long’s Drug Stores, Inc.â„¢
Looney’s Superskate
Los Alamos (NM) Medical Center
Loudoun County (VA) Public Library
Louisiana Children’s Museum
Lowe’s Home Improvement Warehouseâ„¢
M.N. Goldseins Co., Inc.
Macys (HI)
Macy’sâ„¢ (Salem, Oregon)
Madrona Medical Group (Bellingham, WA)
Magic Springs & Crystal Fallsâ„¢
Magnolia Regional Health Care Center (Corinth, MS)
Maine Missing Children’s Clearinghouse
Malco Theatres, Inc.
Mann Theatres (St Louis (MN) Park Cinema 6
Marana (AZ) Police Department
Maranthon Community Church
Marden’s Surplus & Salvage
Marie Irwin Community Center (Homewood, IL)
Marine Corps Community Services
Marion (SC) County Health Department
Marion (SC) Police Department
Marketplace Foods
Marshall Community Center (Vancouver, WA)
Marshall County (IN) Sheriff’s Department
Marshall’s ®
Martinez (CA) Police Department
Martins Super Markets
Martin’s Super Markets (IN)
Mary Chiles Hospital (Mt. Sterling, KY
Massanutten Resort (McGaheysville, VA)
Mastics-Morcihes-Shirley (NY) Community Library
Mathis Brothers Furniture
Maxx Fun of Atlanta (GA)
Mayfield (OH) City School District
MC Management Co. Inc.
Mease Countryside Hospital (Safety Harbor, FL)
Mega Pick’n Save East
Meijer ®
Menards ®
Mercy Hospital (Buffalo, NY)
Mercy Outpatient Rehab Center (Roseville, CA)
Merritt Athletic Clubs
Metro One Loss Prevention Group
Miami Valley Centre Mall (Piqua, OH)
Michael’s Stores, Inc. ®
Micheal Memorial (Gulfport, MS)
Michigan Department of State Police
Michigan Hapkido Academy
Mid(America Management Corporation ®
Middle Country Public Library (Centereach, NY)
Milford (MI) Public Library
Mill Mountain Zoo
Mills Fleet Farm
Mills Fleet Farm ®
Miskelly Furniture Home
Missing Child Center (Hawaii)
Mississippi Attorney General’s Office
Missouri State Highway Patrol (DDCC)
Moraine Park Technical College (WI)
Morris County (NJ) Park Police
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Morris Furniture Ashley Homestore
MOSSystems (Clarendon, NY)
Mountain Empire (VA) Community College
Mountasia Family Fun Center (Santa Clarita, CA)
Mr. Treasures Xchangeâ„¢
Mt. Clemens (MN) General Hospital Emergency Department
Mt. Pleasant (IA) Public Library
Mt. San Rafael Hospital (Trinidad, CO)
Murfreesboro (TN) Medical Clinic
Museum of Life and Science (Durham, NC)
Museum of Natural and Cultural History (Eugene, OR)
Museum of Science and Industry SM (IL)
Museum Place Mall
Naples (FL) Zoo
National Cowgirl Museum and Hall of Fame
National Institutes of Health
National Park Service (Oyster Bay, NY)
Native American Community Health Center (Phoenix, AZ)
Natural Tunnel State Park
Navy Exchange Service Command SM
Navy Lodge Monterey (CA)
NC Transportation Museum
New Foundation of Hope Inc.
New Hampshire Attorney General’s Office
New Jersey State Police
New Life Center (Bakersfield, CA)
New Mexico Skate, Inc.
New York State Attorney General
Nick’s Pizza & Pub (Crystal Lake, IL)
Nickelodeon ® Family Suites by Holiday Inn ® (Orlando, FL)
Nordstromâ„¢
Norridge (IL) Park District’s ECE
North American Cinemas, Inc.
North Carolina Aquarium at Ft. Fisher
North Carolina Aquarium at Pine Knoll Shores
North Carolina Aquarium on Roanoke Island
North Carolina Transportation Museum
North Clackamas (OR) Aquatic Park
Northbrook (IL) Park District
Northern Lights Central School (Warba, MN)
Northline (TX) Mall
Norton Simon Museum
Oak Brook (IL) Park District
Oak Forest (IL) Park District
Oak Lawn (IL) Park Districtâ„¢
Ocean City (NJ) Public Library
Ocean County (NJ) Library
Ocean Shores IGA
Ocean State Job Lot
Odenville (AL) Public Library
Odenville (AL) Public Library
Office Depot ®
Office Max ®
Office Of Management and Budget of the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico
Old Country Buffetâ„¢
Old Navy ®
Old Time Pottery, Inc. ®
Ollie’s Bargain Outlet
OLPD Pools
Omni Richmond (VA) Hotel
One World Community Health Center (Omaha, NE)
Onotonagon (MI) Memorial Hospital
Orange County (FL) Regional History Center
Oro Valley (AZ) Public Library
OSF St. Francis Medical Center (Peoria, IL)
Oshman’s Sporting Good Storesâ„¢
P&C ® Foods
Pace, Inc.
Palmetto (SC) Health Richland (Columbia, SC)
Panama City Beach (FL) Aquatic Center
Paradise Park, Inc. (Lees Summit, MO)
Park District of Forest Park (IL)
Park District of Highland Park ® (IL)
Parker County (TX) Search and Rescue Team
Parrot Jungle Islandâ„¢
Party City Corporation ®
Party City Holding LLCâ„¢
Patchouge-Medford (NY) Public Library
Pathmark Supermarketâ„¢
Paul D. Camp Community College
Pedros Juso Center (Wakefield, MA)
Pekin (IL) Public Library
Pella (IA) Public Library
Peninsula Regional Medical Center (Salisbury, MD)
Pennsylvania House of Representatives
Peoria (IL) Park District
Peoria (IL) Public Library
Peppermill Condominiums (Miami, FL)
Person County Health Department (Roxboro, NC)
Pet Quarters of Maine
PETCOâ„¢
Petsmart ®
Pheasant Run Resort
Philadelphia Museum of Art
Piggly Wiggly ®
Pima Unified School District (AZ)
Pinheads
Pittsburgh (PA) Children’s Museum
Play Café SM
Playland Amusement Park
Powder Valley Conservation Nature Center (Kirkwood, MO)
Prevailing Word Christian Center (Plantation, FL)
Pricebusters (Aeia, HI)
Prince George’s (MD) Muslim Association
Prince Kuhio Plaza (Hilo, HI)
Pro Cathedral Church of St. Clement (El Paso, TX)
Project Safe Children ®
Prospect Park (NY) Zoo
Provena Mercy Center Hospital (Aurora, IL)
Public Buildings Authority of Puerto Rico
Publix ®
Puerto Rico Electric Power Authority
Quality Markets
Quincy (IL) Medical Group
Rapid City (SD) Police Department
Rapids (WI) Mall ®
Raving Brandsâ„¢
Ray Lewis & Company
RC Willey Home Furnishings ®
RC Willey ®
Real Estate Resources (Charleston, WV)
Recreation Equipment Inc. ®
Recycling Depot (Clovis, NM)
REI ®
Reliant Client Services
Renaissance Fair (Canterbury, CT)
Retail Marketing Services â„¢ (San Diego, CA)
Reyna School for Boys
Rightmer, Inc.â„¢
River Oaks (MO) Care Center
Riverhead Free Library (Riverhead, NY)
Riverside Markets
Rockford (IL) Health System
Rockford (IL) Public Library
Rockland County Sheriffs’ Department
Rocky’s Ace Hardware ®
Rogers (NY) Memorial Library
Rollhaven Skate & Fun Center (Flint, MI)
Rose Hill Townhouses, Inc.
Round Lake (IL) Area Public Library District
Rowe’s Supermarkets SM
Royal Resorts (Las Vegas, NV)
RPCS, Inc. ®
Russel Baptist Church (Middleburg, FL)
Saddleback College
Safeway Canada
Safeway, Inc.â„¢
Saint Paul (MN) Public Library
Salvation Army, Western Territory
San Jose (CA) Public Library
Santa Rosa (CA) Police Department
Santa’s Village (Jefferson, NH)
Sav-A-Centerâ„¢
Savannah (GA) Christian Church
Save On Foodsâ„¢
Saved By The Cross Ministries (Mosinee, WI)
Sayville (NY) Library
Science Central (Fort Wayne, IN)
Science Museum of Virginia
Scrapbook Studioâ„¢
Sears ®
Shakopee (MN) Cub Foods
Shaw’s Supermarkets, Incâ„¢
Shawnee (KS) United Methodist Church
Shawnee (OK) Mall
Shelby Family Entertainment
Shelby Memorial Hospital (Shelbyville, IL)
Shop(Rite (Edison, NJ)
Sienna Crossing (TX) Elementary School
Singewald’s ATA Black Belt Leadership Academy
Skate-Away USA (Greenwood, SC)
Skateland Playdaze
Skatetown (Enid, OK)
Skatetown Ice Arena (Roseville, CA)
Smith, Inc. ®
Soaring Eagle Casino & Resort
Sobeys Westâ„¢
Soo Bahk Do Houston Martial Arts (Stafford, TX)
South River Compounding Pharmacy (Richmond, VA)
Southern Madison Private Learning Center (Richmond, KY)
SpecialFX Sports, Inc
Speed Art Museum (Louisville, KY)
Sportman’s Warehouse SM
Sports Authority ®
St. Catherine School (Milwaukee, WI)
St. Francis Hospital (Columbus, GA)
St. Joseph’s Mercy Health Center (Hotsprings, AR)
St. Mary Medical Center (Walla Walla, WA)
Stage Stores
Stage Stores
Stanford University Bookstore
Star Market (Hyannis, MA)
Starr Elementary (Doniphan, NE)
Stater Bros. Markets
Steve & Barry’s University Sportswear SM
Strikz Entertainment (Frisco, TX)
Suffolk Family YMCA
Sugar N Spice Child Care (Scranton, PA)
Sunrise (NV) Public Library
Sunriver (OR) Owners Association
Sunset Empire Parks and Rec ® (Seaside, OR)
Sunshine Foods
Superfresh ®
Supervalu, Inc.
Sweetbay Supermarketsâ„¢ (Naples, FL)
T & B Enterprises
T.J. Maxx ®
Tama (IA) Public Library
Tampa (FL) Fire Rescue
Tanger Outlet Centerâ„¢
Target ®
Temple Christian School (West Carollton, OH)
The Arc of Union County (Scotch Plains, NJ)
The Bombay ® Company (Houston, TX)
The Bradley Center of St. Francis (Columbus, GA)
The Brentwood (TN) Library
The Cadillac Fairview Corp.
The Children’s Museum of Utah (Salt Lake City, UT)
The Children’s Place Retail Stores, Inc.
The Crossing, A Christian Church
The Crown Center (Fayetteville, NC)
The Furniture Store ®
The Great Indoors ®
The Great Indoors ® (Woodbridge, NJ)
The Houston (TX) Museum of Natural Science
The Kerley Group
The New Rockome
The Ohio Historical Society
The Pinnacle Center (LaPlata, MD)
The Pointe South Mountain Resort (Phoenix, AZ)
The Portillo Restaurant Group ®
The Ritz Theatre Company, Inc.
The Sister Shop (Washington, DC)
The Smithtown (NY) Library
The Southern Skillet (Chamblee, GA)
The University Club (New York, NY)
The Wackenhut Corporation
The Welk Resort Branson
The Westchester (NY) Mall
The Woodlands (TX) Children’s Museum
The Works of Wyommissing (PA)
Thomas Nelson Community College ® (Hampton, VA)
Tidewater (VA) Community College
Tidyman’s, LLCSM
Tigard (OR) Public Library
Time In Franchises, LLC
Time In Interactive Play and Party Centers
Tippah County (MS) Sheriff’s Office
Tishman Speyer â„¢
TJX ®
Tom Thumb Food and Pharmacy ®
Topeka and Shawnee (KS) County Public Library
Town & Country Skateworld
Town of Brookhaven (NY) Public Safety
Town of Oyster Bay Department of Public Safety (Syosset, NY)
Town of Plainfield (IN) Parks & Recreation
Town Sports International
Toys “R” Us, Inc.â„¢
Triple Play (Hayden, ID)
Tuesday Morning, Inc. ®
Turfway Park (Florence, KY)
Tweetsie Railroad (Blowing Rock, NC)
Tykes Town, Inc.
Tyler Motorsportsâ„¢
U.S. Department of Defense
U.S. Department of Homeland Security
U.S. Department of Transportation
U.S. Federal Protective Service
U.S. General Services Administration
U.S. General Services Administration
U.S. Marshal Service
Ukrop’sâ„¢
United Skates of Americaâ„¢
United Way of Sussex Countyâ„¢ (NJ)
Unity Church of Christianity (Houston, TX)
University Christian Fellowship
University Recreation, Washington State University
Upper Nazareth (PA) Police Department
Uptown Technologies ®
VaCap Federal Credit Union
Vallco Fashion ParkSM
Valley View Meidcal Center (Fort Mohave, AZ)
Valor Security (Tarentum, PA)
Value City ®
Victoria Rapid Transit, Inc. ®
Victory Child Care, Inc.
Viewmont Mall (Scranton, PA)
Village of Orland Park (IL) Recreation and Parks Department
Village of Pinecrest/Pinecrest Gardens (FL)
Village of Savoy (IL) Recreation Center
Vineyard of the Canyon Church
Virgin Entertainment Group
Virginia Aquarium & Marine Science Center (Virginia Beach, VA)
Virginia Attorney General’s Office
Virginia Beach (VA) Department of Public Health
Virginia Center Commons
Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles
Virginia Department of Rehabilitative Services
Virginia Department of Transportation
Virginia Zoological Society
Waldbaumsâ„¢
Walgreens ®
Wal-Mart ®
Warehouse Shoe Sale ®
Warren General Hospital ®
Warsaw (IN) Community Public Library
Washington State Division of Child Support
Waterloo Gardens, Inc.
Watson’s Laboratories, Inc.
Waukegan (IL) Park District
Wedding Tree Printing
West Charleston (NV) Library
West Chicago (IL) Park District
West Des Moines (IA) Parks and Recreation
Westhampton (NY) Free Library
Wheelie Fun, Inc. (Accord, NY)
Wheeling (IL) Park District
Wheeling Park (IL) District
Whitney (NV) Library
Whole Foods Market ®
Wilcor Outdoors
Winnipeg (MB) Goldeyes Baseball Club
Winnipeg (MB) Public Library System
Worchester (MA) Public Library
World Marketâ„¢
Worsley’s SM
Wow Family Fun Centerâ„¢
Xanterra (CA) Parks & Resort ®
YMCA South Hampton Roads (VA)
YMCA ®
Zandri’s Martial Arts (Brookfield, CT)
Zanesville (OH) Surgery Center
@dbeahn: Oh well I argued that she wasn’t being “detained”, but rather “delayed from leaving”, per Code Adam guidelines. But apparently I’m “wrong” and I need to “talk to a lawyer”.
Can we please leave this alone and let me handle MY business. The only reason I ever posted this on my MySpace was because this is how I keep in touch with my friends and family. If you all want to be updated as I update the situation then do what half the nation seems to be doing (lol), read my blog! This is really becoming aggrivating. I am not trying to be rude in any way because that is not me, but dont all of you have better things to do?
@pinkbunnyslippers: Yes, I know. Apparently, according to JW, if the person in front of you isn’t paying attention and is 5 seconds late getting started when the light turns green, you’ve been “unlawfully detained” and “falsely imprisoned”…
@stacyarrington: Hi Stacy. While I don’t have children, and playing devil’s advocate, I’m unable to fully process your side of the story as the complete and unadulterated truth, I do want to say I apologize if this is aggravating you to have your private life splayed for the world to see. But I have to agree with another poster here who said that if you wanted it to remain your business, you should’ve kept it that way, and that means not posting on the internet, no matter how “private” you felt the forum may be.
Maybe you should make your profile private or to only selectively allow the family that you want to keep updated on your life the ability to see it. That way, you can be assured that none of us are interfering with your business…
…because right now, it’s not yours anymore. It’s the internet’s. And you can’t have it both ways.
@stacyarrington:
here’s an idea -
1) stop coming here to read what others are saying
2) ask Ben to take the story down – NICELY
3) make your myspace page private so only authorized friends can comment.
Good luck!
@dbeahn: THANK YOU for spamming half the page with that list. Wouldn’t a URL have done the job?
Anyway, it’s a protocol for having staff look for the child. It’s not justification to unlawfully detain people, which they do not have the power to do. All the store policies in the world do not trump criminal statutes and constitutional law. This has already been covered in this discussion elsewhere.
@stacyarrington: hi. this is a consumer issues site. We discuss things here. If you think the discussion is frivolous, you are welcome to find other sites to surf.
@killavanilla: I don’t think it should come down. We have every right to comment and discuss a public Internet posting and it is not trade secret or anything else that should be removed. If you don’t like being talked about on the Internet, what are you doing posting publicly?
I have a blog that I only want my friends to read. So, I have it set up so that you have to (a) know where it is and (b) log in to see or comment on entries.
By not restricting viewership of a page, you are granting anyone the right to read it, and if they wish they may discuss it, and under fair use law, even reproduce excerpts from it for discussion purposes.
And besides, there are nearly 30 comments on this story. It’s a little late to say “oops we shouldn’t have posted that”.
Besides, stores illegally stopping people from walking out the door is something we discuss here these days…
@Buran: … 300. *smacks keyboard* I can count. Really.
@dbeahn:
Wow, calling me lazy three times in the same post. What are you in like the 5th grade? No where in ANY of the times I have responded to comments you made in any post have I resorted to calling you names. Yet you regularly jump on people and start with the name calling. And no I am not referring to any flame ways you have gotten into, because you seem to get into a lot of them. Funny how that is.
Now back to you response. I was not too lazy to read the entire quote. I read it several times. So lets take a look at it again:
“All states other than North Carolina permit citizen arrests if a felony crime is witnessed by the citizen carrying out the arrest, or when a citizen is asked to help apprehend a suspect by the police. The application of state laws varies widely with respect to misdemeanor crimes, breaches of the peace, and felonies not witnessed by the arresting party.”
So the second line, that I was “too lazy to read”, states that in the case of misdemeanor crimes, breaches of the peace, and felonies NOT WITNESSED BY THE ARRESTING PARTY, laws vary greatly by state.
Correct me if I’m wrong (and I’m sure you will), but I believe kidnapping is pretty much a felony in all 50 states. So referring back to the first line, and the situation as described in this post, unless you actually witness the crime, and you aren’t in North Carolina at the time, you cannot, as a citizen, make an arrest or detain anyone for kidnapping, without opening yourself up to civil and criminal liability. And in the great state of Florida you might even get shot, legally, for your trouble.
So tell me again what I am too dumb, lazy, or stupid to understand?
Oh, and one last thought, even though the Wiki quote you provided doesn’t seem to mention it. Do you think that since you actually have to witness the crime to make a “Citizens Arrest” for a felony that the bar is going to be set any lower for lesser crimes?
@Sudonum: “Correct me if I’m wrong (and I’m sure you will), but I believe kidnapping is pretty much a felony in all 50 states. So referring back to the first line, and the situation as described in this post, unless you actually witness the crime, and you aren’t in North Carolina at the time, you cannot, as a citizen, make an arrest or detain anyone for kidnapping, without opening yourself up to civil and criminal liability.”
You’re wrong. The fact that “laws vary from state to state” is not the same as “you cannot, as a citizen, make an arrest or detain anyone for kidnapping”.
ANY time you make a citizen’s arrest, whether you witnessed the crime or not, you open yourself up to civil and criminal liability.
What you said in your first post, however, was:
“So according to you own post in order for someone to make a lawful citizens arrest, the citizen must have WITNESSED the crime.”
That is totally wrong, and ignores completely the second sentence. It depends on what state you’re in.
Incidentally, it doesn’t matter if you’re in Florida or any other state, you ALWAYS have the risk of being shot. I’m not aware of any state that currently has zero gun violence. They have gun violence in many countries where private ownership of handguns isn’t allowed at all.
Or are you saying that someone that is kidnapping a child, which is as you pointed out a felony, would be SURE to obey gun laws, and therefore it’s only certain states where you’d be risking getting shot?
Yes, the security guard was in the wrong. Yes, Walmart is at fault for not properly training it’s employees. However, people *should* be restrained from leaving the store during a “Code Adam”. Anyone who says different is a complete fool.
Situation 1: A “Code Adam” occurs, people are detained until the Police arrive. Turns out the kid was hiding somewhere and no crime occured. Is it seriously worth your time to hire a lawyer for this? Sure as hell no DA is going to prosecute for this.
Situation 2: A “Code Adam” occurs, no one is detained. Someone walks out with a kidnapped child. Now it *is* worth hiring a lawyer to sue the company since sympathetic juries will award you millions. The DA *will* prosecute. Horrible publicity for your store.
If you were a store manager, would you detain (even if it is illegal) or not detain? A little common sense here please.
@Buran: “300. *smacks keyboard* I can count. Really.”
lol
You know, we seem to rarely agree, but I do enjoy reading your posts. Generally they’re well thought out and you always seem passionate about the things you believe. I respect that.
Won’t somebody PLEASE think of the children?
@killavanilla: It may not be a big deal to you, but it is a big deal to other people when their right to refuse gets turned int outright illegal responses by the stores.
And yes, civil rights are a VERY big deal.
“Since you seem to have the time and patience to protest every single minor inconvenience like receipt checks, why don’t you show the same patience when explaing the whole point behind it?”
I have explained it before: the store is trying to force its customers to help it do its job, which is fine. it may ask. It crosses the line when people are prevented from leaving when they refuse. I’ve never said I have a problem with their asking. I’ve said I have a problem when someone blocks others from leaving when they say no.
Some people just don’t seem to understand where the actual issue lies.
“Just show your receipt”? I’m sick of the attitude that “if you would just submit to illegal searches, everything would be fine” that you and many others seem to trot out.
Don’t tell me what I should and shouldn’t do and when I should inconvenience myself for someone else’s sake.
“Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? You seem to want to apply that to the complaining customer all day long, while denying the same to the security guards and companies in questions.”
Because the customer didn’t commit a crime by walking out of the store without bowing down to the request. The store did when they blocked the customer from leaving. It doesn’t matter who is right” as long as the store can’t prove that a crime was committed — and if they could, we’d know about it because the police would have been called and the individual arrested.
“Justice is supposed to be blind and is not supposed to favor one side over the other. Why are you so willing and ready to assume that the complainant in every situation is ALWAYS correct, honest, and innocent?”
See above. I will always be on the side of the individual who clearly had a crime committed against them — unlawful imprisonment and/or unreasonable search and seizure. And because stores do not, not, not have legal authority to detain individuals without proof of a crime (if they had it, they’d take the shoplifter to their holding area while the police were called!), the victim is the person who refused to show their reciept.
I will always refuse. If you don’t like it, that’s not my problem. And if you don’t like the fact that there are other people who don’t like the “just give up your rights, it’d be easier”, then respectfully, I don’t care.
@dbeahn: Thank you! I always enjoy a good discussion. I’ve goofed before and gotten a little out of line (had a bad day once) but hey, as long as people manage to keep the personal insults down, discuss on! (I didn’t like the spat above in which someone accused someone of being too lazy to read, for instance. sheesh).
@GuruSteve: OK, “assholes”, “jackasses”, now “complete fools” for those who wish to exercise their right to leave. What, are those who know their rights and USE them going to be “terrorists”, next, the latest buzzword for people we don’t like?
Would I do it?
No. You’d be amazed at what being on the wrong end of an illegal-detainment suit can do to your repuation and your employer’s, not to mention the bad press that you’ll get once the story gets out that you illegally detained people. Worse if you did it knowingly. And you might get fired, too (as I think staff should who hold hostages) — it’s illegal for stores to chase people into the parking lot even if they see shoplifting, after all.
Common sense? Respect peoples’ rights. If you want anyone to be able to detain, call 911 and summon police help! That’s what the emergency number is for! But even the police have to have probable cause, themselves.
@Buran: Correction: “a fireable offense” instead of “illegal” re: parking lot chases.
Look people. If you really want people to be detained by the store when ever some jackass calls a “code whatever”, then CHANGE THE LAW! Till then, get over your delusions of grandeur and deal with the fact that it is illegal and morally wrong to detain someone whom you have not witnessed commit a crime.
Let me also remind you that code adam is POLICY and NOT LAW (except in federal buildings.).. And my rights trump your policy every time.
meh, 6 billion “little miracles” is quite enough. Your kids aren’t special and there’s a 99.7% chance you’re not doing the species any favors by breeding.
@dbeahn:
Since we seem to be arguing semantics regarding the issue of citizens arrest, and perhaps the fact that I typed that first post late last night and possibly didn’t clearly elucidate my position, I see no point in continuing to discuss this. We both seem to agree that in order to make a lawful (meaning relatively free from civil and criminal liability) citizens arrest for a felony in any state but North Carolina you have to have witnessed the crime. Lesser crimes vary by state. Is that correct?
Regarding getting shot. I am under no illusions that a gun toting criminal has any compunction to regard any laws. My point was that a law abiding citizen who FEELS they are being threatened in the state of Florida has the LEGAL right to shoot the person threatening them. Therefore if this incident had taken place, as the OP describes, in Florida instead of Maryland, she would be within her rights to shoot the security guard who accosted her. Also that you, as a Florida resident, should be damn careful about trying to detain someone for a citizens arrest, Code Adam or not.
And lastly, until you can prove it to me otherwise, the BTC person is a girl.
If that had been me trying to leave, I think I would have handled it a bit differently. Probably by calmly explaining that I was armed and that further attempts to grab, hold, restrain or impede me would result in serious injury to them. Thanks for understanding and have a nice day.
@jwissick: CODE Adam isn’t law (except when it is). Nice.
And you REALLY believe you live in a state where there hasn’t been a law passed allowing for reasonable measures in extrodinary circumstances? What state are you in, I’ll be happy to look up the statue that shows you’re wrong (as usual).
You really believe there’s a judge ANYWHERE in any state that would find in your favor if you tried to bolt the door with a child matching the description of the missing child in tow and someone stopped you? If you think that anyone in law enforcement hasn’t at some time been touched by a tragic missing child case, then you must have an IQ similar to your shoe size.
Perhaps you should get over the fact that “civil rights” don’t give you carte blanche to endanger another person. If you think they do, I suggest you try it and see what happens.
@Sudonum: I’m only going to address the REALLY important part of your post! BBCAmerican from “Behind the Counter”
Go back to some of the early posts:
[www.behindthecounter.com]
“I can feel my feet throbbing. When that was all over, I got invited out for karaoke by some of the other “girls” at the store but I absolutely HAD to come home and start packing.”
Context is that he is also a “girl” in quotes. Later on that page we have:
“Speaking of heels and nails, the queens that are coming out of the woodwork at Wal-Mart. One has even been sort of flirting with me. I can’t quite pin it down as a flirt or as a friendly.”
From this page: [www.behindthecounter.com]
“I had to work at Wal-Mart last night. I wore a “Birthday Boy” button and customers kept wishing me “Happy Birthday,” so that was good.”
There’s also a running thread about the “Barista Boy” he thinks is cute and is interested in. At one point he posts this:
“Things have been running hot and cold with the barrista barrio boy. I found out his name. George. Not Jorge, but George. Hmm. Rather pedestrian. I was hoping for Raul or Alejandro or something. Not George.
He “dropped in” at Wal-Mart to see me again. But he had another guy with him. That equation cancels out to zero. He was noticeably cool to me on Tuesday night, sort of blowing me off when I went in to Starbucks, so that was a minus.”
Now, if TBC person was a girl, it wouldn’t matter that Barista Boy has another guy with him.
That’s my “evidence”. It was enough to convince me that BBCAmerican is a gay man.
This woman should definately sue, as a matter of fact not suing would be unAmerican and I would question her patriotism.
@Daemon_of_Waffle: Wow so much for rights, I bet you’d love living in China.
@thisaintsweettea:
You obviously aren’t a parent.
Because one stupid security guard put a lot of stress on a lady with what turned out to be a bit of an inconvenience to her, there’s going to be policy changes.
And due to these policy changes, someone, somewhere is going to have an easier time getting out of a building with someone else’s kid.
The security guard screwed up and there is no defending that. Unfortunately, his screw up is going to get someone killed in the end.
@TheUncleBob:
Wal-Mart has NOTHING to do with the care of children, and it shouldn’t be their responsibility nor right to detain innocent people just because some kid is missing. How about the PARENT keep an EYE on THEIR kid?
Remember, it’s not about policy. Fuck policy. If policy breaks the law then the company is opening itself up to being sued, and rightly so. And before you say that the law should be changed, just consider what a slippery slope that is. Any asshole could then wrestle someone to the ground just because a purse got snatched in the vicinity. I’ll quote Penn & Teller: “When someone says ‘there ought to be a law…’, there probably oughtn’t.”
‘meh.
Should parents keep a better eye on their children? Hells yeah.
Do they always? Unfortunately, no.
Tell me this – if Wal*Mart (or any other store) has “NOTHING to do with the care of children”, does this mean when the kid gets away from his/her parents and does something stupid, like, say, climb onto a mirror, knock the mirror over and get killed, does this mean Wal*Mart shouldn’t have to pay out because the kid was stupid and was climbing on the mirror?
@dbeahn:
Who exactly was she endangering?