Dan got a new job (Congratulations, Dan!) and moved from Chicago to Indianapolis. The move meant he had to close his Citibank account and open a new one. He chose Chase because they have lots of branches nearby.
It’s too bad they’ve accused him of check fraud and even Citibank (who issued the check) can’t convince them otherwise. Now he’s wondering what he should do.
Dan writes:
Hey guys–
This is Dan who gave you the stunning Buffalo Wild Wings chicken fingers fiasco from a few months with a new major ass-frakking I’m getting from Chase Bank.
I recently moved from Chicago to Indianapolis for a new job, and while in Chicago I had a Citibank account. Well those don’t exist in Indianapolis, however there is a Chase Bank every 11 feet and were offering a $100 promotion if you open a new checking account with direct deposit. So on August 20th I went to a local branch, did all that, got the hard sell for every other banking product under the sun, declined but the fella was still nice and set me up with everything. I opened the account with my last Citibank paper check for $200.
So a few days later, using my online bill payment on Citibank, close out the account by mailing myself a check for $1000. I receive that on a Saturday, so Sunday morning I deposit my check into my Chase account. A few days later I received my security deposit on my old apartment back in Chicago for $750 and go to the Chase branch on South Keystone and Hanna in Indianapolis to deposit it. I tried to do it in an ATM machine and it refused my card, so I walked into the bank and spoke with one of the bankers (not the tellers) and said my ATM card was funky. She looks up my account and says my account is frozen because of check fraud. Keep in mind, we’re not in an office, but a desk in the middle of the bank. I told her that’s impossible and she reports that because I had a check for $1000 on a new account that was deposited in an ATM, those are all red flags for check fraud. I was aghast at this idiocy. She then told me that the check number of the deposited check had been flagged as previously used, and thus was fraudulent, so as a result my entire account was frozen INCLUDING the $200 check I had previously deposited and had been cleared with no problems. I told her this was insane, the check was electronically generated BY CITIBANK, it wasn’t ripped out of a checkbook. She called the manager over who looked me straight in the eye, again in the middle of the bank and said loudly “All the evidence points to check fraud, and we need to protect ourselves so I refuse to release any of your money”. I told her I was a brand new customer for all of a week, my first check cleared fine and quite frankly I make decent money and am stunned she is treating me as though I’m some thief. I asked her to just call Citibank to verify that was a good check and she refused.
So, I left to go to the branch I opened the account. The banker, Brian Long, is a genuinely nice guy and seemed legitimately interested in helping me. After I vented, he took me into a private office and said we’ll call Citibank together to fix this. We did a conference call where Citibank thinks Chase are a bunch of idiots. When a check is generated through online checking, the check number is a randomly generated 12 digit number (not the 4 digit number on paper checks) and the odds of that # being the exact number as another check that I had wrote in the past 12 months were astronomical. Brian checked with his manager who said they need some documentation. Now mind you, this is the FRIDAY BEFORE LABOR DAY. Citibank said they were confused because the check was deposited on the 26 and CLEARED on the 29th, so Chase has the money and doesn’t understand why they now want proof of payment. Either way to said that proof and to run a trace on that specific check number would take 3 business days, which means a week before anything is done. So even though we have Citibank telling Chase “you cashed the check, the check is good, why are you on the phone with us?” Chase (via the branch manager) would not unfreeze my account without documentation. Now the problem here is, I no longer have a bank. I closed my Citibank account to deposit everything into Chase. So they now have $1200 plus the $750 I couldn’t deposit today, and I have access to NONE of this money. So Brian felt bad and offered to give me cash to tide me over the weekend until this was resolved and I could pay him back, which is phenomenal to say the least.
So I come home from work today to be greeted with a letter from Chase informing me my account would be closed in 10 days and they would report my fraudulent activity to the credit reporting bureaus. It was after 6 when I got home from work so obviously I wasn’t able to call anyone at Chase and scream at them. Does anyone have any advice what to do?
Dan
Well, Dan. It might be time to complain to Chase’s regulatory agency, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency. According to the FDIC, the agency should acknowledge the receipt of your complaint within two days. They also give some helpful tips about what to include in your complaint letter.
You should also contact Chase and let them know what you are doing. Perhaps this will wake them up. If the mistake does end up on your credit report, don’t worry. You can dispute it. Here are some instructions for disputing inaccuracies on your credit report from the FTC.
Anyone else have advice for Dan?
(Photo:Meghann Marco)
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Sounds like something that would fall under the Fair Credit Reporting Act.
If they report it, you may be entitled to a settlement from them.
IANAL
Advice? Yes. I’ll take “Credit Union”, for the win.
Personally, I avoid banks as much as humanly possible, in favor of credit unions. I also happen to know that residents of Indianapolis are eligible to join Teacher’s Credit Union (www.tcunet.com) based on residency, and I’m pretty sure there are other eligible credit unions out there.
Seems simple enough to resolve, but a huge PITA. Try to get in writing from citi that the check is good, then Credit dispute will be much easier. IANAL but I think I might threaten to sue for slander in loudly announcing to the entire bank, twice, that you forge/fraud checks.
You can’t entirely blame them here, it does seem a little fraudulent, from their end. I’m sure when it comes to fraud, even the bank tellers likely have little control. The fraud dept where I worked could shut down your entire account, where it was impossible to make changes. They should at least give you your original deposit back.
Goodness. Sounds like something from Kafka.
chase sucks. I am a new permanent resident and was just issued a SSN 5 days ago. Chase would not add me to my wifes account because I failed some kind of check from chexsystems. I have not had any bills in my name in the US and have no unpaid debts. They would not tell me why I was denied but sent me to an endless loop of request a report from chex systems. I opened up a new account at a CU and brought my wife over. I’m done with chase.
You got your security deposit back!
You got your security deposit back?
I’m one of the former BoNY account holders that’s been absorbed by the Chase machine and I’ve had mixed experiences with them. On one hand, they have much more streamlined and user friendly online banking system than BoNY’s, which was ancient. They have a secure login system that requires you to validate whenever you use a new computer to log into the account, but on the other hand actually finding the secure login page is a pain in the ass (You have to search through google for their secure login page). It seems like they have a whole big heaping helping of contradictions in the organization that need to be ironed out.
7 years of banking with BoNY and I never had a problem with any account. In the less than a year that Chase has been at the helm, I’ve had credits and debits appear and disappear at intervals after buying shit, one of which was several thousand dollars worth of car work that would have seriously bounced other items if it had not accounted for correctly after I made a phone call.
The verdict is still out for me, but I doubt I’m going to get the same level of awesome from Chase that I got from Bank of New York.
Oh well.
There must be a new policy at chase to claim fraud on every transaction across the bank. In an unrelated incident I just got a new Chase Credit Card that had a block placed on it because of fraud claims. They claimed that another person was using my social security # but when I checked my credit reports and finally got through to the head of the fraud department he admitted that they made up the story just to check that the new account was valid. There are other stories with similar experiences across the net. I am getting a new bank.
Ben, Meg, Carey–
Can we have a front-page follow-up on this when something happens? This is a fascinating visit through the looking glass and I want to know how it gets resolved, and how Chase makes amends for their insanity.
Thanks.
I cringed reading this. It’s a plausible scenario that could have happened to anyone.
I’m still unclear as to what triggered the red flags. Was it because you deposited a $1000 dollar check via the ATM?
This is insane because so many new bank accounts are opened by people who have MOVED. Of course they’re going to be depositing big checks. The duplicate check nonsense is probably because Chase truncated the 12-digit electronic check number to a three- or four-digit number that now repeats an earlier check from the guy’s Citi account.
One way to avoid this stupidity is to have your new bank arrange for money in your old account to be transferred, and to leave your previous account open until you’re all settled in with your new bank.
I suggest that you go back to the Chase bank at a busy time and start complaining loudly (but calmly) about their crappy service so that everyone in the bank lobby can hear. Talk loudly about how good Citibank is and Chase is out-of-control and can’t get its act together.
Just remember to stay completely calm and rational and let the Chase people get all frustrated in front of the other customers.
@Antediluvian: I agree, looking forward to seeing how this ends up.
Hi everyone–
an update and to fill in some details. I called (thanks to the consumerist) the executive CSR # and spoke to a Ms. Crabtree (HAS to be a fake name!) who was sympathetic and promised to initiate an investigation but would take 3 business days. I asked her, since she’s executive customer service and thus must have some higher CSR knowledge, which of the 2 branches gave me the Chase-level of experience. The first branch where I had to ask the branch manager to lower her voice when she was accusing me of check fraud and refused to call Citibank, or the second branch which spent 2 hours with me in a private office conference calling Citibank and offered me $100 to tide me over the long weekend. Her reply was “i don’t know what specific branch policies are, so I can’t tell you if the second branch was just being nice to you”. So she considers not calling me a thief and kicking me out of the branch “being extra nice”.
As of right now I still have a frozen account, no accsess to any money and no one from Chase calling to apologize for being dickweeds.
I have to second the credit union idea. When I moved from Pa. to N.J., and then to N.Y., I didn’t bother to leave my credit union, even though they’re only in Pa., because they make it a breeze to do everything online. I can even deposit checks online, then mail in the check. The money is in my account as soon as I do it online. Do Chase or Citibank let you do that?
@Asvetic: If it was exactly 1000 bucks, then there is a good chance that was the first red flag… But what dosn’t make sense is that most banks can, infact, communicate with each other and it would not have been hard for CHASE to verify that the check was legit and issued and then remove the flags and make stuff go as normal.
One bit of advice for after – when this debacle is sorted out: Put your money in a local credit union. I don’t work for one, own stock in one, or anything like that. It’s just that, on the few occasions when you might have a problem, they seem to be more responsive on the whole. Maybe because they are smaller and local.
There is a credit union locator/finder web site somewhere… and it’ll tell you which ones you might qualify for based on location or occupation.
@Asvetic: According to the first bank, the 3 red flags for check fraud are: 1. a large check 2. deposited in an ATM 3. on a new account.
I pointed out this seemed ludicrous since banks WANT customers to use an ATM as it’s cheaper than a teller, there were no branches open on a Sunday and why woudl $1000 be suspicious for someone funding a new account? I could see 3 money orders for $9,999 raising a red flag on a bank from Nigeria. But this was a Citibank issued check from myself to myself.
Credit unions are nice, as long as you never actually travel anywhere. Kinda of hard to find a branch of the “Idaho State Employees Credit Union” when you’re in Florida…
@freshyill: I got to second the Remote Credit Unions.. Mine is on the other side of the state, but I’ve been a member since I was twelve. Got to ask about the deposit online thing, how does that work? I go to another credit union in my current town that is on the same “network” and can deposit the checks in their ATM’s. (get the first 100 credited right away, and the rest within 24 hours usually). My CU belongs to a half dozen “networks” so its pretty easy to find one that works.
Not that it helps Dan, but I’ll guess the letter was robot-generated from elsewhere in the Chase beaureaucracy.
Go back to Brian with the letter, and start formalizing your requesta and actions with him. He is the guy who can make your account sink or swim at this point. If he fails you (dont forget to pay him back, anyways), then letter OCC, FTC, as well as the state banking commish, FDIC may have a piece of the action too, etc….
advice: this is a not so subtle sign for you to avoid Chase after this has been resolved in your favor. talk about bad first impressions.
I’ve had a similar experience with Citizens Bank in Boston loudly accusing me of depositing rubber checks, placing a bogus exception hold on a check that they had already cleared, and later refusing to let me make a withdrawal after the hold had been lifted. All this on an account that has been open for many years, that’s never had a bounced check written or deposited, and that’s tied to a large home equity line. The manager had the gall to tell me that all of their actions were “for my protection.” I moved my money out to an on-line savings account as soon as I could.
@mbrutsch: Unless you join a member of the shared branching network. I’m a member of an Oregon CU, and have no trouble getting cashier’s cheques, making deposits, etc. here in Michigan at a local CU.
Full disclosure: I have a Chase account and really like them, however, this is absurd.
It’s been quite awhile since I’ve been in banking but since when did depositing a check from a major bank at an ATM equal check fraud?
In this day and age, it’s about a 30-minute process for the bank to figure out whether a check is legit and that account has the funds to cover it, certainly not 3 days. And if the account doesn’t have the funds to cover it, then the person guilty of check fraud isn’t the one depositing it (unless there’s a steady history of bad/fraudulent checks).
Unfortunately, I don’t have any advice to give except keep escalating and, as soon as this is resolved, close out your Chase account and go with another bank
@Phuturephunk: I had the SAME thing happen to me while Bank One was in merger. Not only would they randomly appear/disappear but until I started getting daily printouts showing the mystery transactions, the computer had no record and the bankers treated me like a nutcase. I just had to close the account – they had no resolution and could only give me computer problems as a result of their system switch as an excuse.
You will probably just have to change to another bank. This is the price we pay for all this convenient technology!
@mbrutsch: You hit probably the only downside of joining a credit union. They’re local. Yes, if you move, you’ll have to change credit unions. But then again, this guy here moved, and he had to change major banks, too. Go figure.
An EECB might help, too.
@beyond: I agree with you in principle about technology, but no technology was needed for a bank CSR to deliberately embarrass a customer, nor was any technology in play when the higher level woman failed to resolve the issue.
The problems with banks is that they assume you are guilty before you prove innocence beyond a reasonable doubt and maybe not even then.
I have to agree with all of the folks that point to credit unions as a better alternative. Since they are member-driven institutions, their customer service values are a lot higher than the commercial banks.
@mantari: You don’t necessarily have to
switch credit unions when you move. I’ve been using one four hours away
for the past six years. In the off chance that I need something that
can’t be done over the phone or online, they’re part of a network of
credit unions, so I can just go to a local credit union and they can
access my account. However, I’ve never had to so far.
You suggest that we have our reports corrected at the bureaus if it shows up incorrectly?
From the site that has exposed the same bureaus in the past for being terrible at responding to those complaints?
Aheh.
FWIW:
The last 2 times I’ve opened bank accounts, the first with a “regional” national bank, the second with BofA, within 2 weeks of opening I’ve deposited 20K+. Besides the usual 3-10 business days for any check that size, I’ve never had a problem.
With today’s electronic handling of checks between banks, there’s no excuse for this.
Hey Dan –
Welcome to Indianapolis! I would suggest Indiana Members Credit Union (imcu.org). I’ve been with them since I moved here. They have a very broad acceptance of members. If you live in Marion County, you qualify. You can use ATMs throughout the Alliance One Network. Pretty decent. Teachers Credit Union would be another candidate.
@mbrutsch: Actually, many Credit Unions use Shared Branching. You can go into many credit unions (and banks) just as if it were your home Credit Union. The ATM’s in this network are free, as well.
Sorry, I know how pro credit union everyone on this board is but I find most CU services to be ridiculously slow and antiquated.
Far too long a lag time for checks to clear. Fees for not using their ATMs though they only have a handful. No free checking options and the list goes on and on. Longer hold times of your funds on pending purchased thus allowing the occasional bounce-age. Weak fraud protection services (most banks when you contest a charge reverse the monies almost immediately) many credit unions take a week or more.
Chase is the worst commercial bank but there are other commercial banks out there that provide better services than many credit unions. I think when it comes to credit unions you need to do your homework and make sure they offer many of the services that wont tie up your funds when they shouldnt be.
Chase screwed my credit over as well. Partly my fault but here goes…
I had a credit card with them. I always made my payments on time and normally I paid more then minimum. My balance was about $6000.
Well being a young single father I qualified for state assistance for daycare so I could work.
Well, I had a grant from a childcare place and when that ran out I was to apply for help. They were suppose to notify me when it ran out. I paid $50 a week as opposed to $250 due to the grant.
Well the grant ran out and they didnt tell me my funds were empty so they were billing me $250 a week and I was only paying $50. This lasted for a few months when one day they call me and tell me.
So i setup a payment plan and then apply for assistance with the state who gives it to me and all is well…or so I think.
Anyways long story short the childcare center screwed me and reported me as nonpayment to the state because I had a balance from before which shouldnt have counted against my state aid but they made it sound like i didnt current pay…which i did at a rate of $100 a week, $75 more then state required to keep assistance.
Well now i suddenly owed childcare a few thousand dollars or else he couldnt go, so i had to make a choice. Pay my credit card or continue to work and provide for my Son.
I choose to pay daycare as much as possible per week so he could keep going.
Well I called my CC and told them and said what was going on and I needed help. They said no and I would be hit with $35 late fee every month and $35 overbalance fee’s once i went over..which happened.
So I get the childcare squared away and I start paying down my CC. Then one day they send it to collections cause im so far behind. They offer me a settlement deal, they give me exactly 5 days to come up with $3000 out of the about $4500 I owed. I managed to come up with $2700 so I call and plead…they say no deal.
Thats the story, long boring but i felt like telling everyone cause Chase is a bunch of dickheads. I got them all paid off but my credit is horrid now all because they wouldnt work with me.
Hey, I live in Indianapolis. That company was broken as AFNB, as Bank One and some other bought-out bank I forgot, and now as Chase.
I’ve been a big fan of Forum Credit Union myself.
I think Brian wants to go on a date with you.
I like to have functional checking accounts at two banks, just so this kind of mis-adventure cannot freeze my access to all of my funds. Anybody else do this? US Bank and WAMU for now. I had Wells Fargo for awhile but it was not as handy.
I see all these “Chase screwed me over” posts and have to ask…..am I the only Chase customer that can’t say anything bad about them? I’ve got the Chase Amazon credit card, and have no complaints. In fact, just a minute ago, I got off the phone with them to see if they would lower my APR and they did by around 2.5%. Not that it matters since I don’t carry a balance on the card, but hey, it’s nice to have it as low in possible in case an emergency comes up. And, I pay for all the expensive crap I buy with it (and pay it off ASAP) so I frequently have $25 Amazon gift certificates coming my way. Should have one coming next billing cycle, which works out quite well because I think South Park Season 10 just came out on DVD
Here’s the advice:
Get a Credit Union, Banks suck!
Citibank is such a good bank — my nearest branch is 40 minutes away but with so much power they give you online and at their ATMs, plus how quick transactions post to the account- how they waive fees… Just a really good bank, and i’ve banked everywhere here in Houston. Slow slow banks. Citibank’s especially great with direct deposit. My advice is to get EVERYTHING in writing, and certify any mail you have to send. Also, ask Citibank if there are any fraud prevention steps you can take toward Chase, in regards to that bill pay check. But definitely, a copy of your citibank statement showing the check having cleared, should be proof enough to dispute any charge against Chase with a regulating body. I had a friend who deposited an official paycheck into a new Chase account here in Houston, after having had an account in Louisiana, they held his paycheck for a 9 days before clearing it, on account of it being an out of state check. Nothing he could do about it but wait and borrow cash.
Depends so deeply on the bank…
I remember once when I moved, walking into a credit union in Calgary and asking them if they were linked to the credit union in Creston (where I grew up, a -really- tiny town in the Rockies).
They said ‘no’, and I explained the situation, I was trying to move, but didn’t have the account set up to draw as a chequing account, and was 600mi away from the original bank, so I couldn’t empty it…
They took $5 of my money for a bank check, drafted a bank cheque to me from -their- bank, called my credit union, drained my account, and I walked out with $500+ dollars of my money.
I didn’t talk to a single soul, everything was handled 6′ away from me, in less than 5min… I was shocked, they bent right over to help me, and I didn’t have an account at their bank…
I deposited a $5000 check via the ATM in my credit union account once, and I didn’t get accused of fraud. Sure, they held that check (a personal check from my mom) for 5 days, but there were no problems. And normally my check deposits are effective immediately through any ATM. This one was only held because it was more than a couple of thousand.
I don’t plan to ever go back to a bank, if I can help it. AmEx and a credit union are all I need.
XANAX25MG word of advice, file a complaint with the FDIC, the FTC, and also find an attorney.
A very similar incident happened to me, only at bank of America (BoA). I got a new job and moved south. Since my bank was based in New England and had no branches within several stated, I decided to close out my accounts and open a new one. How much of a pain could it be, right? Well, I closed my account and got a cashiers check (official bank check) for the $6k in my account. Since there was a BoA on every corner in the south (including in my local grocery store), I opened an account there. In all the paperwork opening the new account, I forgot to deposit the 6k check from my old account. No problem, I just deposited it at the ATM later that night (I know, here is where the Monday morning quarterbacking comes in, but at the time, it seemed like the best way to get the money moved quickly). When I went to setup my online banking two days later, I noticed that my balance was close to negative 6k. I called in to see what was going on. They had put a security hold on my account because I made a large deposit through an ATM. Fine, but shouldn’t that negate the 6k only, leaving me with the other monies I had deposited? I was told the security hold would be gone when the check cleared 1-2 days later. Fine. So the next day, I get a call from BoA security wanting to know why my account is overdrawn 18k. 18k? They look over the account, finally claim computer error, and ask me to call back the next day. A day later and I am overdrawn more than 54k. It appears that they are multiplying the amount by three every day. Security calls and asks me to voluntarily report to a branch to “talk”. I go right away, taking the stub from my cashiers check deposit with me. Unfortunately, I get nowhere. They claim I was the cause of the overdraft and want their money. I stand my ground and show them the stub from my cashiers check- they won’t even look at it. To keep the story from rambling, I’ll just say this continued into the (negative) six digit figure range. It took the threat of a lawsuit to get my money returned several days later(in the form of a cashiers check, which I immediately took to Wachovia and have never had a problem). BoA placed multiple notices of fraud on my “Chexsystems” report. It took almost a year and several certified letters to BoA and OCC to get those removed. I also incurred just over 2k in legal fees as I had to hire a lawyer on retainer to fend of the BoA security department. To this day, I will not even use a BoA ATM. I even (honestly) refinanced my house last year when BoA bought my mortgage from the initial broker. This is the first time I posted publicly about this event, but the story brought up some memories. Some people have a perverted uncle from childhood they refuse to talk about, I have BoA (OK, so maybe it’s not “that” bad).
I hope Dan makes out OK, but I can tell you from experience those guys just don’t care and err on their side at every move. Get this resolved and run away!
@capturedshadow:
BofA for when I travel and a small regional one, Whitney National, where I know everyone, for everyday use.
This is Chase, the bank where I wrote a friend a check on my old USBank account, and after six weeks post deposit with my check not clearing we found out 1) they lost the physical check, and 2) did not try to process the check at all. Because employees at the branch he used in Tulsa had never heard of USBank.
Of course, neither had the people at my favorite grocery store. It would help for USBank to build branches, rather than just put their name on LA’s tallest building.