TiVo works fine with digital as long as you use an IR Blaster or use a CableCard compatible TiVo.

Complaint: People should not use the word "ghetto" in complaints. Unless they live in a "ghetto".

Props: So THAT is what those Slingbox things are for. I couldn't really see a use for them until you pointed that out, Ben. Awesome idea!

Having worked as a DISH Network for more than a year I can shed some light on this.

1 - I'm completely unaware of any insurance regs that would prevent a 3rd story install. Now that said, in many cases a rental will tell you that you can't punch holes in their building to have a dish - so if you don't have a balcony you're out of luck.

2 - DISH is strange in its corporate structure. It has a customer service division and an installation division and they're not the same thing -- in fact they hate each other. As such, you frequently can't trust the guy on the phone to know what he's talking about with respect to the install.

3 - DISH's satellites often don't like trees. Now that said, if the installer can get a signal in the summer you're going to be ok year round. If you tried to do this in December I'd say the tech did the right thing. Otherwise he needs to at least try -- a lot of the time you can get decent signal. Now that said - the dish is pointed as a spot in the sky about the size of a quarter held at arm's length, so hitting that specific target is important.

4 - Because of the way install commissions work, you're likely to get more accommodation from a third-party install than you'll get by calling DISH network directly. That said, you'll also have to deal with that installer for your repairs/equipment for quite some time and they're done getting paid for your install, so you can usually count on less motivated service there.

Best of luck next time though! It sounds like you had a bad experience with DISH. I worked there long enough to know there are some really bad installers out there. There are also some really good ones though. It's pretty hit or miss right now. The sad fact of the matter is that this is not unique to DISH. Welcome to the American pay-TV industry.

My boss struggled with DishTV for almost three months over a dish on the roof of his two story house. They took the order - came out but said it was too high to install the dish. He called back and asked for a supervisor who came out and said it was not too high. The supervisor arranged another installation - another installer came out and again said it was too high. This happened three times before someone finally installed the dish.

@Captain_Tsunami:

Also, watching MLB playoff games when you have to go to Germany on a business trip for most of the duration of the postseason

Dish does need to work on their customer service. We have been a long time Dish Network customer because Charter Cable is major poop in my area.

Well, as luck would have it, we bought a new HD TV. YEAH..
Then, we discovered our PVR (old system, like DVR) receiver needed to be upgraded.
Well, a very nice customer service lady at D.N. was very helpful in getting us our HD DVR upgrade with 100 bucks to be credited back later. Turns out, she screwed it up and we only get the standard HD system installed.
Called DN customer service and talked to Satan's little sister who blamed my wife for letting them install the wrong unit. (I agree, my wife's x-ray vision should have caught that)
Anyway... Satan's little sister (who shouldn't ever be talking to customers) charged us 150 bucks for the upgrade to the HD DVR.

Well, we LOVE the HD DVR system, except for the second tv option don't work, everything is great.
Ended up not needing the the second TV option anyway.

They sent us THREE boxes to send back our TWO receivers. The old one plus the HD standard.

One month later we have to call them with the tracking numbers to get credit.

I still have the stupid other empty box...

I worked tech support for DISH for around two years before finally throwing in the towel. My screen name is a play on Echostar, DISH's parent company.

First, apartment complexes are well within their rights to sell "exclusive service agreements" to local mom&pop cable outlets. In fact, that's how these tiny, half-assed cable resellers make money, they pay a token fee for exclusive rights to an apartment complex. And because you're locked into a monopoly, their service and channel selection almost universally sucks. Satellite is your alternative, unless your apartment complex is particuarly insidious and they deny your request to mount a dish to drive you toward their preferred cable provider.

Second, you can absolutely mount a dish higher than the third story. To say otherwise is just silly.

Finally, your troubles are just getting started. DISH is a racket. Not only do the inbound tech support staffers not have access to the dispatching database, half the time we weren't even allowed to call the install team to help you out. We were supposed to put your appointment in our little computer system, tell you the tech would be there, and then reschedule if anything went wrong. I can't imagine things have changed much, for the positive at least.

@Killfile: @Echodork: Do you have any tips for getting out of my DISH contract without paying an ETF? I moved into a new building that doesn't allow satellite dishes.

I moved in April and tried to get Dish, but because of signal problems and my apt. complex's restrictions, it was a no-go. Like the OP, I'd been required to pay the install fee in advance (directly to Dish). When I wasn't able to get service installed, I was skeptical about that install refund happening (I was prepared to do a chargeback if it didn't), but within a few weeks I did get the refund -- ironically through a credit on my AT&T bill. Weird.

Yes it is lamer than lame that companies can have exclusive contracts with properties, etc. to sell their product. The property management company I work for has a deal with Comcast so our tenants HAVE to use Comcast or pick a dish (if they have reception.) If I had it my way this practice would be outlawed. It is totally anti-competition.

Step 1: Formulate an intelligent complaint that does not use the word "ghetto".
Step 2: ???
Step 3: People listen to complaint and help you resolve your problems.

@not_seth_brundle: I would read this if I were you. It is against the law for an apartment to deny you the ability to install a dish that is under one meter diameter.

[www.fcc.gov]

@not_seth_brundle: You may wish to check The FCC's rules on satellite dishes. Landlords, homeowners' associations, and the like have very limited ability to prohibit small satellite dishes.

My brother recently had to have his directv dvr replaced and they kept sending him a new (factory refurbished) but they didn't work. By the 4th one he called directv to complain some more. He got a woman on the phone who was absolutely no help. So he asked for a supervisor.
The woman told him if she would give him a "special deal" NOT to speak to a supervisor! So he asked what the deal was and all she offered was $5 off his bill for six month or free hbo or showtime for 6 months!
He opted for the supervisor.
He told the supervisor about it but they didn't do anything that he knows of.

Now don't get me wrong I have never really had any huge problems with directv and I really like the service but some how offering a "special" deal not to speak to a supervisor just seems really wrong.

Not a very smart move to buy the TiVos before actually getting the cable hooked up, given all the wrong stories you got from the dish network and ATT.

Did you ever try to knock on your neighbors' doors and ask them what they did to get cable? Probably would have saved you a lot of hassles...

@roche: @kjherron: Hmm, according to those rules, unless I'm missing something (which is more than possible), I wouldn't be covered because I don't have an "exclusive use" area outside my condo. In truth, though, I'd rather fight Dish than the condo association.

Travis,
The term for your situation is "MDU" (Multiple Dwelling Unit). I live in a similar situation.

There are many frustrating things about this MDU situation we are in, most frustrating is my inability to obtain satellite broadcast HD. However, one advantage is that DirecTV can not put me under contract when I add / remove / change equipment. Something to do with the fact they consider me "Qwests" customer, not theirs.

I've used this to my advantage, purchasing an HD PVR from Best Buy that I use to obtain my locals in HD OTA. When I added this box to my account, I had no contract. Maybe you can do the same. YMMV.

Had a similar experience with DirecTV when they came to install. Acutally, they were really replacing the previous home owner's hw, already installed on the roof.

The guy showed up two hours late, and basically didn't want to do the install, giving one excuse after another: That tree is in the way! That tree is too close to the house - a branch could fall on me! Your one story house roof is too tall and my insurance won't allow me to install! All BS - he just wanted to go home. He finally broke down and said he'd come back the next day (necessitating a day off work for me.) I had to threaten to call his supervisor if he didn't get the work done.

The dumb thing was he didn't even have to do anything - just slap a new dish on the existing mast and aim the thing. All the wiring was in place. He then brought our TV boxes in the house, went back to his truck and left without even saying he was leaving. I had to call DirecTV to figure out how to activate the set top boxes.

They even had to mail me an "Installation Completed" signature form because the ass didn't even get my signature before leaving.

But at least it got done.

Uh, have you ever considered just not watching TV? I see what's on every now and then and it just seems like mindless blather. I know when I die I don't want to be thinking 'damn, i watched a LOT of tv!'...

Feel your pain. We just bought a new house about 25 miles out from the city. We've been jumping through flaming hoops for two weeks trying to get our DISH contract transferred. Most of the problems have stemmed from the local "Billy-Bob and his cousins" satellite installer. We've had 3 different techs out to our house and gotten three wildy different estimates to get the dish working.

Oh come on people, get your heads out of your PC asses. Words only have the power you give to them.

@Aut0mat1c: It has nothing to do with PC and everything to do with not sounding like a 'tard.

@kjherron:

My complex doesn't prohibit dishes, but they do prohibit attaching a dish to the building, patio railing etc. The only people at my complex who have dishes have them set up on elaborate freestanding easel-thingys on their decks. My deck didn't face the right way, and Dish would have had to sink a hole in concrete several feet out from the building (which of course the complex won't allow).

I have to say that I have had nothing but good experiences with Dish after ordering a year ago.

Last August, I found a 52" HDTV on craigslist for (comparative) pocket change. After comparing plans, I went with DirecTV (Comcast? No thank you). The DirectTV installer shows up a week later, walks around the house, and tells me I won't be able to get satellite connection. Well, I had already checked DirecTV's azimuth lists, so I knew the elevations would be close but workable. I tell him this and he just shrugs and tells me I'm wrong. I had been watching him, and he hadn't even used any equipment to see if he could get a satellite signal. Off he goes, and on the phone I go...with Dish.

After explaining the situation to the cs rep and one of their tech guys (both of whom were *very* helpful and patient), I signed up and scheduled an installation. On the appointed day, *two* Dish vans pull up (five minutes early), they agree that it will be tight, but that they'll give it a shot. An hour and a half later, they had set up two dishes, one on the roof and one by the drive. Didn't work. So they installed a second roof mount, moved the roof dish over to it, and everything work perfectly. Not a problem since.

So to make a long story monotonous, ymmv. Now if I could just get local HDs and SEC football here in Baltimore, I'd be in seventh heaven.

Many of the larger complexes around here give you free broadband and free basic cable as part of your rent. The local provider is a lesser evil than Comcast or Charter and the responsibility to keep it working is the ISP and landlord. Not a bad deal and it keeps the building from looking like dish city.

Is there no option for a TIVO to take a component input?

(A confused CSR who works with TVs, but has honestly never seen a TIVO)

Guys, I know this is a radical idea, but I would consider not having ANY television service. It's just not worth it anymore. I'm on the brink of canceling Dish because a bunch of HD channels no longer work. At the moment I'm running a contest between X-Box and Apple TV to see which is the better alternative in the long run. The internet is also going to be a tremendous resource for television in the next 5 years(Joost, etc).

Bittorrent.

We live five miles south of a sign that says "end of the world." First, we had DirectTV. They were fine, but didn't offer "local" stations. We switched, post-contract to Dish, which, then, did have local stations. The Dish installer's home was 4 states away, and they were living in a motorhome in a state park in our area. The Dish system worked fine, until it just quit one day. After many calls, they mailed me new hardware, which I had to install, and I had to mail their broken stuff back.

So now we're all hunky-dory, and can watch infomercials 'til hell freezes over. Oh, now the downstairs remote works both the downstairs and upstairs tuner, but we don't really watch up there anyway. I think dish service is analagous to cell service.

It's super easy to install a dish yourself. I've gone the tube-in-a-5-gal-bucket-of-cement route, as well as using the provided wall mount, but screwing it straight down to a sheet of wood, then throwing a sandbag or two down. As long as this is on a balcony or another area for your exclusive use only, your building can't stop you.

Ahhh! The free market!

@cornish: Hmm obviously you have never lived in a ghetto. I have as a child and the things I have seen!. I am sure no one would have cared if he had said thats soo trailer park. Because obviously only whitey lives in trailer parks so its ok to make fun of them.

@acambras:
As far as I know, it's against the law to prohibit attachment to the balcony railing.

Not so, GREASY THUMB GUZIK:

For all intents and purposes it's prohibited, since even though a balcony is an "exclusive use area", the air immediately past the edge of the balcony isn't. No part of the dish or LNB arm can stick PAST the railing.

@Alvis:
The problem in my particular case was that we couldn't get a signal from my patio. To get a signal, the installer would have had to mount the dish on a pole about 5 feet out from the edge of the patio.

@Greasy Thumb Guzik:
To what jurisdiction's "law" do you refer?
Regardless of any law or regulation (although there's none that I know of), I didn't want to risk losing the security deposit (for violating apartment rules) or starting off this tenant/landlord relationship on the wrong foot. The installer told us our options were installation on the roof or the pole, so I asked the manager -- she said no on both counts. I was disappointed (I'd been looking forward to telling Crapcast to stick it), but I see where the landlords are coming from.

@ACAMBRAS

That sucks, but unless your landlord wants to be extra nice, you're SOL.

I know most people want to avoid confrontations with those with the power to make their living situation uncomfortable, but I've had to lay down the law with at least three different landlords over the years when putting dishes up. Every time I have to point out that their "no dishes" clause in the lease is unenforceable, as the FCC has already ruled on the issue. They whine and moan, but I usually just give them the FCC contact number and invite them to convince the FCC themselves if they want them to change their ruling. That's the last I ever hear about them complaining.

@roche:

I have heard that some apartment complexes require that you get some kind of special extra insurance if you want to have a dish installed. Its a way to discourage installing a dish & forcing you to sign up with their little monopoly deal with the local cable company.

Insurance just incase your dish falls off the balcony & hurts someone. :rolleyes:

TV is overrated! Pirate...I mean, get "shared" shows of the net! Plus it's free! (Think I put enough exclamation points in there?) !just for good measure!

@Alvis:

But again, they don't have a "no dishes" clause in the lease -- in fact, I've seen dishes on several balconies (on one of the other buildings -- better orientation, I guess).

Their objection would be to my having a dish installed on the roof (a space to which I have no claim anyway) or sink a pole in the yard (also a space to which I have no claim; it's a common area).

They also don't have any sort of exclusivity agreement with any company, but around here, Comcast, Dish, and DirectTV are pretty much the choices people have.

@ NCTRNLBOY

I had one landlord try that insurance line on me. I pointed out that they allow chairs and tables to be kept on balconies without being insured.

Per the OTARD ruling, they couldn't single out dishes as needing insurance, when other items of similar size and weight were permitted on balconies with no such restriction, as it constituted a prohibited "unreasonable expense".

@roche:
Actually they can. I worked as an installer and have encountered this issue many times. They may deny you anything that is not on your balcony (ie your property) and nothing may be attached to their buildings. So unless you have a balcony that can fit either a bucket/pole mount or a tri-pod facing the perfect direction with no trees or line of sight issues, then you can forget about it.

Wow is American Satellite TV really as bad as I hear?

Whew, and I thought Sky in England was bad because they're greedy bastards who buy shares in companies so that their competition can't provide as good a service. (Yeah, that is getting looked into).

At least we get a freaking free magazine telling us all about Sky and what's on every now and then! And the dishes are sleek. They ditched the ones in the picture about 10 years ago :S

It is a violation of federal law for an apartment owner or homeowners association to forbid satellite antennas. Put in your dish and promise an FCC complaint if they try to give you grief.

@ ONOURIS

Commercial DBS sat TV, maybe. I can pull a crapload of free-to-air signals down with a 90cm dish and motorized aiming arm. Crisp, clean digital reception without exceeding the 1m dish size protected by the FCC.

I went through exactly the same situation. Exactly. We are now using ATT Home Entertainment. It gives us overpriced programming without any of the benefits of having actual satellite. No special deals, no HD, no DVR, no multi-room discounts. In fact, if we want to add a second receiver, we have to pay an extra $5 a month. We cannot buy our own receiver, we have to rent one from them. I'm guessing that my apartment complex gets some kind of benefit from using this service. The only thing that I get is that when we move, the service ends. No contract other than the one with the leasing company.

@Alvis:

I think it refers specifically to dishes that are hanging off the side of a balcony, hanging out a window (there are window mount kits) & hanging over the railing of the balcony. Insurance against the dish falling down below because it is hanging over a ledge. You COULD however get around that by doing the pole-in-a-bucket type of setup.

@ NCTRNLBOY

Well in that case they don't need to threaten to make you get insurance, because they can outright deny you permission to have any portion of the setup extending beyond your apartment.

@cornish: Nothing quite like doing what you complain about others doing.

@lorddave: Wasn't the internet supposed to be doing that five years ago?

@kcrusher: So right. I like not paying for advertising. Ink on paper, mostly stuck together....called books. Free to borrow at any library (just bring em' back), cheap at used book stores, and sometimes deals at the regular chains.

My thirty inch HDTV's been sitting dark since last winter.