Uggg, this is why I don't buy anything with a debit card.

A couple of years back, two trips to the dentist in the same week. The idiot dentist ran a $120 charge as $1,200 and ran it through twice, so it was $2,400 instead of $120. And the second charge of $100 as $1,000, also run through twice, so $2,000 instead of $100. The credit card company called me because I don't usually spend like that. I called the dentist, they said they would fix it, they didn't, I called again, again they didn't fix it. In the end, I had to dispute the whole damn thing with the cc company and the wrong amount plus duplicate charges thing made the dispute extra complicated and it drug out for three months.

Now if that little scenario had happened with a debit card - $4,400 sucked out in one week and it took three months to solve - I would have been evicted and lost all of my utilities unless I had raided a retirement account or begged my parents to float me some cash for a bit.

Having worked in retail, I can attest to the fact that while purchasing items hits your account almost instantly, refunds do take usually about 3 business days to "process."

I'm not sure if it's because the place I worked (Circuit City) did refunds in batches, or if it was on the credit card company's side, but there was nothing that we could do to speed up the process.

This became problematic on several occasions where a customer would purchase something, return it for a refund, and then try to purchase something else the same day, only to realize that they were over their limit despite the fact that they just had a refund issued.

I agree with using a credit card here. Kind of frightening that a company can make large unauthorized charges like that. Shouldn't they have just called them and said "your card is bad."

It's situations like this one where I don't understand the credit card haters.

A single mother of 3 with 5 iPods, and two $1500+ laptops and she didn't have enough scratch to make her mortgage payments? I think somebody needs to rearrange her priorities.

But getting back to the story, that is a pretty shitty deal with Apple. Hopefully ol' Stevie can get everything squared away.

Is it me, or does anyone else think there are more holes in this story than swiss cheese?

First off, a bank (or CU) isn't going to charge you an overdraft fee on a *pending* transaction. And often times the pending amount isn't the true actual amount...they just "test" the account with an amount, and until it's passed the "pending" stage onto an actual transaction, it may very well stay at that weird amount.

Furthermore, I don't know of any company who's willing to refund the overdraft amount because of their own mistakes. But I might be improperly assuming here...I just don't think any company will say "hey - we know we really screwed up. We're going to take your word for it that you lost $150 because of our mistake." They're going to say "sorry - take it up with your bank".

I feel for the woman, but if you're a single mother with three children and your margins are that tight, what are you doing spending almost $2,000 on a computer? What happens if you get sick or there's a financial emergency? Maybe I'm speculating wrongly and she has some float locked away, but while this is awful and unfortunate, part of protecting yourself is having a credit card to use in situations like this so charges can be easily reversed before your bill even comes due.

Yes, bring the attacks on -- but also consider living responsibly...because you want some item doesn't mean it's financially prudent to immediately have it...or to shell out big for it. Now maybe the kid has some reason he needs $2,000 worth of computer. Sale Mac laptops and refurbished ones can often be had for about $800. I'm a blogger and a syndicated columnist, and I write on a three-year-old iBook that's just great, with a little extra memory from Fry's, and it can probably be had these days for about $400 if you can find a used or refurbed one with a warranty.

Why is someone buying an expensive computer if they are having trouble paying the mortgage? As mush as I love Apple, if you have this little money stick with your old computer or get a cheap Dell.

On the "Why was a single monther buying a computer?" question, my guess is that James was in college and had enough for the computer her really wanted minues $200 so Julie decided to help him out.

Lots of parents would do that, call off your dogs, y'all.

And yeah, buying a $2000 computer for the kid going to college isn't weird either.

This doesn't have anything to do with trouble paying the mortgage -- that's being rather presumptive and unfair to her. I myself would have trouble paying my mortgage if this crap happened without enough time to do an ACH transfer from my savings (different bank, high interest).

As mentioned above, this is why I don't screw around with debit cards, too. Carpet install company in my last house dinged me twice for the total, and that caused an overdraft fee. It took a few days to get credited back.

@pinkbunnyslippers: in this case, they also credited back my overdraft fees due to their mistake, so it's not without precedent.

"This is where my nightmare begins."

"I don't think I could ever fully express to you my anger and frustration."

"The mistake made by Apple in this purchase has caused me and my son great heartache."

Are these sorts of statements good to put in complaint letters or are they overly dramatic? In the ones I've written, I just explain the situation and how I'd like it resolved.

She was only giving her son $199 to cover the rest of the cost. He was paying the bulk of the price for the computer, not she. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that, if you've agreed to pay $199 for something, you'll end up charged for over $1500.

ok guys, RTFA. She was only floating her son $199 for the computer. Apple couldn't verify her son's credit card, so they charged hers instead.

@pinkbunnyslippers: Banks do charge overdraft fees on pending charges. When I was poor they used to do it to me all the time.

This sucks for her and I really hope she can get a refund soon.

Oh, honestly. Everyones complaining about this woman buying a computer when her money is tight, and its not even the issue. Not only did she state her SON paid the bulk of it, but most people don't have $3,300 in their bank account at any given time. Give her a break. Chances are, if apple hadn't debited her account the WRONG AMOUNT to begin with, she wouldn't have been hit with an overdraft fee. I think in the spirit of good customer service, Apple should at least discount the price of the computer enough to cover the overdraft fees, if she provides them with proof from the bank.

Money was tight in my family growing up and I would have been thrilled if my mom had put a little aside to help me out with a big purchase. Chances are this kid is using it for school, and I hope they get everything straightened out.

Not to be an ass, but use some common sense. A simple converstaion with the bank manager would straighten out the mortgage mess and hopefully not impact your credit score and leave you homeless.

However, Julie, you are a stupid bitch. I'm not poor, and I'm not rich....but it pisses me off to no end when the line at a retail store is getting huge because some bitch or some hobo wants to purchase something expensive and asks "$100 on this card, $200 on this card, $250 in cash, and the rest I'll write a check for."

For whatever reason, paying like that is all the rage at department stores. Old farts barely surviving on social security go to JCpenny or Macy's and use five two/three different accounts on a single purchase.

If you didn't make your order more complicated then needed, and if you didn't keep so little money in your account, this wouldn't have happened.
AND WHY DO PEOPLE think it's a good idea to have a debit card and make purchases when the account is tied to the one YOU PAY THE MORTGAGE FROM!?

Stupid bitch. But Apple is also at fault. They should credit you the entire purchase, plus the overdraft fee, plus some money for the headache. Then take your business elsewhere. I know Circuit city and Best Buy would be more than happy to take your money; regardless of how many different places it may come from.

My mistake...with all the redacteds I didn't read it correctly. Sorry about that.

Yeah, RTFA. Julie agreed to pay $199 of the computer for her kid. Apple took it upon itself to charge her for the balance when they couldn't verify the address of the second card.

@Msgundam84: You're a real charmer, aren't you?

There's no reason you need a $2,000 machine for college.

There are plenty of $500 machines out there that are more than adequate. Also, you save $1,500.

At $500 a piece, you can get a new laptop each year and have four semi-decent machines vs. one top of the line computer from four years ago.

I don't know why people spend more than $600 on a computer unless they need it for gaming, graphics or calculation intensive apps. But for college purposes, anything at $500 would be more than adequate.

That really sucks. I worked for a company that usually did take 5-7 days for a CC refund to process. I think its a combination of the time it takes us to process it, send to the bank or whoever, then they have to process. I'm not exactly sure though. We did pay overdraft fees for our errors, all the way up the line(ie - mortgage payment bounces -puts account into hole, then utility check bounces = more charges, etc.) They really do need to fix this, at no expense to the victim here. My bank has been really good waiving fees for cases like this, maybe try talking to them also.

@MSGUNDAM84: Wow, she made a mistake by using a slightly-less-convenient form of transaction to pay for an expensive item, and now she's a "stupid bitch" and it's all her fault? You must be excessively pleasant to live with.

MSGundAM84,

I want to know what bank you use. I can't imagine mine being cool with "Yeah, I told Apple to charge one thing, but it charged a lot more. Can you float me $1500 bucks for my mortgage payment while they get that straightened out? Thanks..."

First of all, 2K for a computer = rip off! 2nd, she used a debit card right? why would you spend 2K on a computer and NOT use a credit card that could possibly give you ANOTHER 1 year of warranty on top of the manufacturer's!? Third, why not use a credit that gives rewards points or cash back?? Fourth, if she had the 2K to pay off the computer, why not put it on the CC for all the above reason because you theoretically have the money to pay it off when the bill comes! This is one of those cases where you have the foresight to take advantage of the situation and avoid a mess that the consumer should have realized. In any case, enough bagging on the consumer since we're all supposed to band together right? So, i hope things work out for her...

@Msgundam84:

Please, please tell us what bank you use and which branch. I want the bank where the manager is so understanding.

"So, Apple charged you the wrong thing and you need me to get rid of all the charges and float you $1,500 for a mortgage payment until Apple gets it straightened out. Hey, no problem..."

Does that sound like any bank manager you know?

Sorry for the double comment. I thought it had been eaten.

@Hawk07: You have no idea what he's taking incollege. What if its Computer Science PHD? Or Advertising? He'd need a good computer, I know I did. @Msgundam84: Too bad if you don't like people putting payments on multiple cards. You make me want to do it MORE! People who can't be patient for more than 5 mins piss me off to no end.

@Hawk07: What do you consider semi-decent? I've been trying to get a laptop on the cheap and keep coming out around $1000-$1200 when I'm done configuring.

My family owns a medium-sized retail business and we do a fair amount of credit card transactions. What I can tell you is that charges hit a customer's account almost immediately. Credits, however, can take days to post.

Mind you, we process charges and credits nearly identically. We swipe the card (or manually enter it for a telephone transaction), select "credit" instead of "charge" and zappo. Our part of the process is over.

Unfortunately, this doesn't stop the occasional prima donna customer from making the aggrieved statement of "you guys are real quick at taking my money but sure are slow to give it back".

TAKE NOTE: It is all up to how the credit card processor handles it... not the merchant. They take the credits out of OUR account they day we send it!

While I feel for Julie's predicament, and while I agree that the Apple store could have called if there was a problem like a decline on her son's card, she DID essentially cosign for this transaction. If you aren't able to cosign for the whole transaction, you shouldn't cosign for any of it. (Isn't that what a cosigner does anyway? Don't they personally guarantee a financial transaction in the event of a default by the primary participant?)

Oh, and I agree about debit cards, too. They have all the risk and none of the benefits of a traditional credit card. If you're using a debit card, why not just use a credit card and pay it off every month? Same financial result but with a nice little 30-day (or should I say 22-day) float and complete protection from mishaps like the one in this post.

Hmmm, I laid the bait and everyone bit.

I go to Commerce Bank...in New Jersey. The manager at my branch has been very helpful in any problems I've had.

Oh, and Cowboys-Fan..... if it was just five minutes I wouldn't complain. But having granny running around the store in her 'little rascal' or 'mobility scooter' and then holding up the line for almost twenty minutes while the employee double-checks ID for the checks and calls the CC companies.....it get frustrating.

Also doesn't help that so many deptartment stores and retail stores hire dumb-as-bricks employees.

OH....and before everyone gets on their high horse about me being born with a silver spoon and all that jazz.....I'm not rich...and I myself have worked in food and retail (several months at Subway and quite some time in a sporting good store). I quickly got items, helped customers, and rang up bills....but still got shit pay. The same shit pay as others who sat on their ass and smoked while they watch me work alone on a register with more than ten people in line.

But I digress.....

Does it clearly state anywhere the sons card was a "credit" card or a "debit" card?

If it was his debit card why didn't he just either write his mom a check or transfer the money to her??(assuming they bank with the same institution)

If it was his credit card....what mom on earth would think that letting her son, who's going away to college and should be poor, put $1700 on his CREDIT CARD was a good idea??? only to spend all 4 years of college (or at least the next full summer) paying off this laptop?

There are quite a few holes in this story...

@bilge:

It depends mainly on what you're looking for. If you keep configuring them and they're coming out as $1,000+ for your needs, then that's what it might take.

Over the summer, I've seen Office Depot, Office Max, Best Buy and CC advertising machines at roughly the $500 price mark. Sometimes even as low as $400-$450. They usually include at least an Intel Duo, 1 GB RAM, DVD writer, 80-120 GB Hard drive.

If you're just going to be using it for casual and small business purposes, a lot of the bargain machines will do just fine. And then when something breaks, or it goes out of warranty, you'll have money left over to buy something newer and better. It's just dumb to me for people to spend $2000-$3000 on a machine when the technologies are changing so fast and the competition in the lappy market is stiff.

@Cowboys_fan:

Like I said in my OP, if you need it for raw computing power, than it will call for a better machine. But all the $500 machines I've seen will cover the needs of a vast majority of college students and majors. There's no need for mom and dad to be dropping $1,500-$2,000 on a machine anymore.

Oh----and intelligence isn't what really counts. It's attitude. Regarless of how dumb employees may be, if they wanna help the customer...then everyone wins.

Have any of your problems at Commerce Bank involved the bank lending you $1500 until you get a misunderstanding straghtened out?

@Msgundam84:

Why resort to a personal attack on Julie. None of us really have all the facts and clearly, Julie is paying a personal price for this incident. Does she really need some armchair quarterback to add to her misery with such an uncouth and inappropriate flaming?

@Hawk07:

Again, the $500 computer is fine for students with most majors. But we don't know what they student in question's major is, so we don't know whether or not this student requires more computing power for whatever reason.

That said, to say there's "no reason" to buy a more powerful machine when there is a good and pretty obvious reason that might or might not apply, seems silly.

Since the debate in the comments seems to be swirling around whether or not it was possible for Apple to refund money in a timely manner, I would just like to clarify that Julie has already seen a partial refund of 123.24 posted to her account, but is wondering what happened to the rest of her money. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. Thanks!

@Hawk07:

The only reason a college kid needs a high PC is to play video games and impress his friends. I bet a high-end laptop is more powerful than most of the computers the computers they'll find in the labs at school.

It's a moot point, most people are clueless about what they need anyway. That includes people with a strong understanding of computers.

People seem to be picking out little things to condemn the women- who cares that she used a debit card or doesn't seem to have a lot of money in bank. The problem is that Apple took more money from her account than they should have and messed up repeatedly while trying to fix it. Who cares that her son was buying an expensive laptop, people are willing to pay extra for nicer computers (no Mac bias here, I have many PCs, and wouldn't pay extra for a Mac).

Yes, I agree- I personally would not have used a debit card, but some people don't use credit cards because they know they can get into trouble with credit. She told them to only take 199 out of her account, of course she didn't expect them to take a lot more. Why can't they credit it right away? Who cares if they only normally process credits once a week (I don't know their policy, just speculating because they said it takes 5 days to process), can't they make an emergency exception and process hers right away.

One thing that I would have done differently (besides not using a debit card) is write a check to the son for $199 and tell him to pay for it any way he likes.

I used to work for Apple's Executive Relations team and they will certainly resolve this issue. I wonder if Apple tried to confirm the address of the second debit card with the customer before putting the remaining amount on the first. Either way, it seems they screwed up when they charged the second amount. It's a handy thing to have a website like this to help you out but I have to agree with other commentors that it's even better not to set yourself up for a situation like this. Different banks handle "pending" charges differently - Julie's apparently considers it already spent - so if there are two pending charges and one is destined to go away, she's screwed. American Express (even the free one) - learn it, love it, live it. No "pending" charges and a free extended warranty.

While Apple clearly needs to rectify this situation, I think this is a great example of how people choose luxury items over basics and necessities.

I used to have a friend whose family insisted on leasing their vehicles (always 2 at a time) instead of buying. Their rationale (and I kid you not): "it's nicer to have new cars." And they were never content with leasing compacts or sedans. Oh no. Always vans and SUVs for them!

And then on day my friend's dad came down with a mysterious illness, had to quit his job and slowly descended into madness. The family's financial problems became common gossip around town. The parents eventually divorced and the family scattered to the four winds. But hey, at least they had nice cars while it lasted!

@Hawk07: One top-of-the-line laptop from four years ago has a better screen than a single entry-level laptop from today -- and when I'm buying laptops, the screen is what I care about.

(More code and more windows at once => less scrolling around to see reference material while I'm working => more productivity; I use ion to maximize that further)

This question may seem simplistic, but when she noticed that they charged her account why didnt she immediately have her son cut her a check for the amount. Should would have been stuck with the overdraft amount (which stinks I realize) but then she would have been able to cover the mortgage.

Instead she tried to orchestrate a complicated refund/recharge with apple that STILL wouldnt have covered the overdraft and instead hit her for more money.

That's apple for you, it just works, even against you.

@Msgundam84: You mean that she should request help from the bank that holds the mortgage, not the one that holds the checking account -- right?

If the folks servicing your mortgage are feeling reasonably willing to help (and your record is good), they typically will agree to allow some extra time for payment. I don't know what the bank holding the checking account could be expected to do, other than attempting to reverse the debit transaction (which is best left to Apple's Executive Customer Service at this point), and that's not exactly an instantaneous process (the bank has to get their money back before they'll give it to you).

@ArtDonovansDrunkenLovechild:

Well, instead they called up Apple, and Apple said they would fix it. It's really not a complicated refund system. Refund both accounts, and charge them again. Apple is clearly at fault, and Apple should be taking steps to rectify it.

@pinkbunnyslippers:
I had this happen to me with GEICO (NYS Law changed, and my rates rose unexpectedly), and they not only sent me a check to refund their fee for not having enough funds to cover the xfer, they also refunded me the charge from the bank being overdrawn.

What's wrong with letting the kid put $1500 on his credit card if he has the money to pay it off when he gets the bill?

When I went to college, I did the exact same thing. Plus, if the school requires a computer (as mine did) you can use general use scholarships to help pay for it.

@Msgundam84: Boy are you not grounded in reality. There's no way that mistake was worth thousands of dollars in trouble.

Wow, the level of intelligence on Consumerist has fallen dramatically. What happened?

And Msgundam84, you're pretty much the textbook definition of 'Troll'*. Please find somewhere else to play.

*[en.wikipedia.org]