you should see the bathrooms at the Alli Store

that's just awful. i'm appalled and horrified that you had to go through that. i'm so sorry.

Ew. And also, I'm sorry, if I was an employee at Jo-Ann's (or anywhere) and someone TOLD me they were going to be grossly ill near me, I would damn well let them use the bathroom. That employee must have one strong stomach.

One part of me thinks that this was rude and insensitive and another part of me thinks that maybe a) clerks in fabric store didn't feel like cleaning up after her (which they had to already because she loosed a little on the floor and said she wasn't going to clean it) and b) they didn't want a stranger laying waste to their bathroom.

As someone who suffers from IBS, I feel their pain.

Don't know what happened to it, but last year a few of our (IL) state senators wanted to make it illegal for any retail store or restaurant to deny anyone (whether they were a "customer" or not) the use of their bathroom. It came about because some woman downstate had Crohn's Disease and basically had an accident in-store b/c they wouldn;t let her use the facilities.

Wow... I worked somewhere without public restrooms that were hardly up to code for my use but when faced between cleaning some kid's piss off the floor and letting them use the bathroom, they always got access to the nasty toliet.

I understand she was completely humiliated but I wish she had the never to just crap all over Carla's shoes.

@missbrooke06: *nerve to crap on Carla's shoes. Not never. I feel everyone should crap on Carla's shoes.

Your complaint is that they wouldn't disregard local ordinances for you?

Ahh crap!

Seriously, if you let the public into your establishment it should go without saying that you should have a public restroom.

@AnastasiaBeaverhousen: No, her complaint is that she had to SHIT ALL OVER THE FLOOR because they wouldn't let her use the facilities.

Alli for the loss.

@AnastasiaBeaverhousen: I seriously think it was a lie. I have never heard of a ordinance against customers using a bathroom in a emergency in my life. In fact as people have pointed out, there are many states currently making what happened here illegal and punishable with a stiff fine.

The only ordinance I know of is the use of a bathroom in a food preparation area, where customers are not allowed to go back there to use it. But in those cases its usually for stores that have no dine in area and are pickup only.

IIRC, Texas legislators were considering a law mandating that business make restrooms available for customers with medical conditions that made it important to have a bathroom nearby -- people with Crohn's disease or irritable bowel syndrome, even pregnant women who have to pee a lot.

I realize that some business don't have the facilities, staff, or legal obligation to avail their customers of restrooms, but I feel terrible for this woman. When I worked in retail, we would let customers use the bathroom (off the stockroom) only when there were enough people on the clock for one person to escort the customer and hang around in the stockroom while the customer did their business. I could understand it better if there'd only been one person out on the sales floor, but it sounds like there were numerous staffers who ignored this woman's desperate pleas. If I'd been one of the JoAnn's people, I probably would have been fired, because I would have taken pity on this woman and let her use the bathroom.

Hmm, Consumerist, you guys should follow up on this, I think a nice ass-chewing to the owners of Jo-Ann's Fabrics, whatever conglomerate that may be or if it is its own company, deserves a reaming.

@ ANASTASIABEAVERHOUSEN

the beauty of ordinances is that they do not always have to be enforced. same for most laws, leniency is allowed.

it's a little thing called "humanity."

That's some fucked up shit.

Jo Ann's world HQ is about 2 miles from my house. I'd be happy to poop in a box and drop it off for them :)

How about this scenario: She uses the facilities, injures herself, and Lionel Hutz Esq. sues the retailer because the bathroom isn't up to code. Still feel sorry for her?

If I was in that situation (after being told no) I would have walked behind a counter or something and dookied on the floor. Let them clean that up. If they call the police I'd tell them I did my best to prevent the incident but they refused to let me use the restroom.

It appears that in Indiana, it is required that all businesses are required by building code to have a bathroom available for employees AND customers. [www.americanrestroom.org]

@AnastasiaBeaverhousen:

Yeah but sometimes you have to say hell with the law suit and do what you can to help someone in desperate need.

If your wife was having a baby and you needed to get to the hospital, are you going to obey the speed limit?

What a shitty thing to go through.

When I used to work at a Pizzaria, we could not let anyone into our washrooms because it meant them going through the food prep areas and possibly-dangerous machinery. We were mostly take-out and had seating for less than 8. I think it's something like seating for 13 or more that mandates you must provide public washrooms. People would always get pissed at us for not allowing use of the washroom, but next door was a Quizno's which (by law) must allow public use, next to them was a KFC with the same public access, and directly across from us was a gas station.

But for this incident, a gods damned textiles place has no excuses not to allow her in.

@Wormfather: Yes, I would definitely obey the speed limit and drive with caution. Is saving a few minutes worth risking the lives of my unborn child and wife? Am I somehow more important than everyone else because I have an emergency?

I feel bad for the customer too, but having been in a similar position after we did let a customer use the private bathrom (and having to clean up after the mess that customer made there) I'd have turned her down too.

@Wormfather: So obeying laws is a subjective thing now depending upon how you feel it applies to you? The lady shat her pants. It's not like it was a life or death scenario. I'm afraid we live in a litigous society and we have to be careful. I didn't make the rules, I just make sure I play by them.

Negative...no, you wouldn't have.

OK people...let's put this in perspective. Someone knocks on your door and asks you to use the restroom because they have the craps. Are you going to let them in? I think not. But by the logic going here, it would be perfectly acceptable for them to push past you and crap in your house, right? I mean the humanity! If someone asks to use your private restroom, then you must let hem right? I'm tired of this crap that people think that a business should bend to the will of every last request when personally they wouldn't. Why should a business do more than you would? Sure, it may generate some good will for the business, but they shouldn't be required to do jack crap.

@Negative: how is it that you're the first to comment like this?

i would have totally done the same thing. and then used their fabrics to a) clean herself up (not the floor), and b) taken some to make some new pants.

then they'd see how their entire retail floor and inventory wasn't up to code =P

all that fabric to wipe with...I'd consider it second only to heaven

damn woman...just find a nice private corner and give it hell

Plim...yes, then you'd be in jail where you would belong.

@Crewd:
as the op already stated, she was already in the store shopping as a customer when this happened. it wasn't like she was out in the hallways and rushed into the store to use their facilities.

and personally, if someone in my house had to use the bathroom and they were already at my house as a guest, they'd be more than welcome to use my bathroom even if it were not "up to code" (as long as it was still functioning.

but perhaps that's the humanity in me =P

I worked at a Hallmarks several summers ago, and we only had an employee bathroom. No customers were to use it, due to insurance reasons. Still - there was once or twice in the few months I worked there that it was obviously an emergency, and my manager allowed the person in. (Typically it was a young kid.)

Policy should be followed as much as possible, but there are times that common sense and a sense of decency should prevail. This was one of those times.

@Crewd: First, your analogy is WAY off. A person of the street using your private restroom and a customer of your business using your business restroom are two totally different things. Second, most businesses are required to provide public restrooms either via building codes or access laws, so it wouldn't be them doing "more than they should".

@AnastasiaBeaverhousen:

I completly agree. There are legal issues at hand here, and yes there are a lot of people working to make those legal issues go away, the fact is that JoAnn's was told they were not ALLOWED to let guests in their bathroom. That could result in legal action against them.

Do we know for sure they had an employee restroom? Any place that I have worked for with a public restroom did not have a seperate employee restroom. Those with employee restrooms were ill kept, and usually in parts of the store where we were not allowed to have customers because of liability issues. They were in parts of the stores that customers aren't allowed in for REASONS, including access to propriatary information.

I feel for this woman, but the second the lady said no, she should have walked out and gone to the next store or driven home and paid the insane amount to have her car cleaned. Yes, her situation was terrible, but what she wanted was akin to saying "Oh, just let me behind the counter with the cash, it's an emergency!"

There are reasons for the rules and regulations, and her standing there aruging it until her situation became that dire was a bad move. I haven't been in her exact situation, but I know people that have and they don't stand around arguing the point, they leave and try the next place. If the next place had a restroom, I don't understand why she stood waiting for the assistant manager.

It'd be great if everybody in the world was nice to everybody. But it doesn't work that way.

@Crewd:

yes, you keep on defending the actions of the cold-hearted and see where it gets you.

you seem to forget the number one rule of business: you're there to serve the public and reap the economic benefits from it.

i'm not saying bend over backwards for ridiculous demands (see: judge dc's smarty pants), but common decency definitely well within the realm of the marketplace.

@Crewd:
and ps, you seem to have missed the sarcasm in my post about using the *fabric* to clean herself. luckily, discounteggroll didn't.

I guess it depends how "not up to code" the bathroom was... i mean it could have been dangerous with wires hanging down and broken stalls or maybe undergoing renovations, or who knows what.

It sucks that this lady had to poop herself, but it sounds like she had a pretty lengthy argument with the manager, long enough that she could have walked to the other store at the first sign of balking from the staff.

Whether it's the law or the rule or whatever, if I have to go, and someone tells me I can't, instead of arguing about it (which only serves to cement the positions and opinions of the people involved instead of changing anyone's mind) I would (and have) immediately just go find another place.

IIRC, Texas legislators were considering a law mandating that business make restrooms available for customers with medical conditions that made it important to have a bathroom nearby -- people with Crohn's disease or irritable bowel syndrome, even pregnant women who have to pee a lot.

yes, I wish they had done so. Then maybe I wouldn't have had to wet myself in a (shall remain nameless) retail establishment at which I had just BOUGHT something, two days before going to the hospital to have surgery on my bladder for the illness that was causing the problem.

No, I didn't have time to waste arguing. When the attack hit me, I barely had time to gasp out the request and make it to the bathroom in the first place. I never dreamed I could actually make a legal case out of it.

@plim: OK...let's try a different analogy, one that fits better. You are having a garage sale. A random "customer" walks up tell you they have the craps and wants to go into the private portion of your house to take a crap. You refuse. By your logic it is now OK for them to crap on your driveway or in your garage. of course, I guess since you are filled with humanity, you would let the random person into your home to release their admitted disgusting bowel movement. I wouldn't. The bathroom at my house does not turn into a public restroom just because I hold a garage sale. Why should we hold a business to a different standard?

@ancientsociety: See my reply to Plim...better analogy.

@Falconfire:
Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!! I was in a local CVS, waiting in the pharmacy line, and this elderly guy walked in and asked to use the bathroom. They told him yes (even though you have to go all the way through the back to get to it, past boxes and everything). He then told them that he was just testing them, because he was very upset that the CVS down the street had denied him access to the rest room, stating it was company policy. He was pissed off, and he said he was going to write a letter to corporate and tell them about how the CVS down the street had lied to him about the company policy.

I always go to this CVS that I was at, and many times my 6 year old has to go to the bathroom out of nowhere. They always let me take him to the back, even though its obvious that only employees should be back there. I like that, they know that sometimes emergencies happen and the customer should be helped as much as possible.

@AnastasiaBeaverHousen

The "recent policy change" the employee quoted sounds more like a store mandate than a local law. If Indiana law does require facilities to offer restrooms, then the state law should override Joann's store policies.

Besides, this woman isn't threatening any kind of legal action or even asking for store compensation. It's a complaint against customer service she received from an employee. And if this is a recent change to the store's policy, shouldn't disatisfied customers be allowed to file a complaint that they preferred the previous bathroom arrangements the store provided?

@Crewd: Maybe I just live in a small town but this happens. A lot of people will let you try on garage sale clothes in their bathrooms or you use it for its intended purpose.

And to your point, the person could leave or the person could crap on your driveway and you would be forced to clean it up and/or call the police. JoAnn's is lucky she left and saved them a lot of trouble.

Also, I can't imagine JoAnn's bathroom being worse than setting foot in Rural King.

I wield power unimaginable.
You will succumb to the rules I choose to enforce.
Teenagers bow before me.

I am a JOANN FABRICS MANAGER!

I have been in a similar situation, but on the opposite side. We had a small store front with one bathroom for employees. An ederly person asks to use the bathroom. To get to the bathroom, you have to navigate our back offices, which are cramped, and cluttered. I said yes, not realizing the trouble they would encounter. I watched as the man stumbled his way to the bathroom, almost failing twice. Then his wife, who had accompanied him, wanted us to go in with him and help him. Needless to say, that is the day we put up the "No Public Restroom" signs.

Had she gone into the restroom, and injured herself, the store would be liable since they had already been told it was not safe. I am very pro-customer, but businesses get sued everday for doing nice things. If I literally had to go to the bathroom that bad, I wouldn't stick around and argue with people. As soon as someone said "No" I would realized it was going to take up too much of my time, and I would have been hauling it to the next store.

and yet another reason why people should not take alli :o)

If the store has some sort of policy against not using the restrooms then they should at least post a sign on the door saying "no public restrooms". I am in NY state and lots of stores and places of business do that here. If she was shopping in the store then I definitely think they have a duty to at least inform the public there are no restrooms in the store before they decide to shop in it by putting a sign on the door. I do think that ALL major retail stores should have restrooms available to the public though. If the bathrooms are being renovated or some other disaster happens then they should be required to post a sign saying that as well.

ah, the banality of evil.

It would seem smart for business to provide bathrooms for customers if at all possible. I'm much more likely to spend time in a store, browse, and spend more money if I'm not preoccupied with having to go to the bathroom.

If I were in a store that made public restrooms available, I'd take care of business, wash my hands, and then return to shopping. If I had to leave the store to use the bathroom at a fast-food restaurant or gas station, I probably wouldn't return to the store to do more shopping, at least not that day. That goes double if I had a small child with me.