Ahh shucks. We pay $9-10/pack in Canada!

Oh, for God's sake. They put through a tax hike in Michigan a few years ago, and their revenue actually decreased -- people quit smoking, switched to rolling papers, or had friends from cheaper states bring them cartons. Eventually the same thing will happen on the federal level if they push the tax -- people will quit and they won't get their money. Sin taxes are stupid that way.

And if they mean the tax as a deterrent measure -- come on, just fucking ban cigarettes already if that's what you want.

$1 isn't enough.

@CumaeanSibyl: Good, I hope people do quit. It's not my job to tell people they can't be idiots, but if they want to be, it'll cost them in a language they understand, $$$. If that's the only reason they quit, I couldn't care less. I have less smokers to deal with and people might be a little healthier. Win win.

I quit smoking after Texas used smokers as a scapegoat for budgetary short falls. I'll give them no revenue because they robbed funds from specialty license plates, such as funding for state parks, instead of *gasp* raising taxes a marginal percentage. Not only do I give them the finger, but I'm also healthier and spend less money. Win/win/win in my books.

I have a hard time feeling sympathy for all you smokers out there. And most of my family smokes. I would be sympathetic........, if I didn't drive home everyday dodging cigarettes as people threw them out the window. >:(

@enm4r: Good thing you don't do anything that puts your health (or others') at risk. Right? Right?!?

I can only hope I don't live to see the full-on rollout of the United Nanny States of America. Maybe I should take up smoking and annoy some of the righteous on my way out...

Its better than Europe, I paid $12 a pack in England a few months ago.

@CumaeanSibyl: "Sin taxes are stupid that way." Um, no . . . that's exactly how they are supposed to work.

Makes me really glad I don't smoke -- a really expensive habit that I don't need.

@beavis88: Eh? I do plenty of things to endanger my health. But I try to keep it to myself. If I want to wreck a mountain bike going 25mph down a hill I have no business going down, I should be able to do that.

Honestly, I have no problem with you smoking. Smoke 20 packs a day for all I care. However, 1) I don't want to smell it and 2) I'm not going to go out of my way for you. I also do not enjoy it seeping from your very existence while you walk around, or perhaps on public transit.

I do have to admit, it always cheers me up on a cold Chicago day in winter to see the little group of people bundled up so tight, standing 25 feet away from the door to the building with nothing but their mouths exposed so they can try to get their nicotine fix. I couldn't pay for that sort of lift in the morning.

I'm acually much more concerned about the massive raise in cigar taxes this law proposes, up to $10 a cigar!
[www.sptimes.com]
They talk about it a little bit there (it's the st. petersburg times)
I don't smoke much, only a handful of cigars a year on special occasions, but this tax will more than double what I pay for my cigars. That's obscene.

Good. They should raise it another couple bucks, while they're at it. Think of it as a stupidity tax.

Maybe they can use some of the money to clean up the cigarette butts strewn everywhere.

I'm glad I learned to roll my own back in high school. Bulk tobacco and rolling papers are 10 times better in quality than cigarettes. Plus, no filters to lay around as litter, when I toss my cigarette, it'll be gone in a few days.

The only vice I have left is my smoke break. No booze, drugs or cable TV. Working as a personal care attendant can be emotionally draining and having a relaxing moke break sure helps.

Guess I'll have to switch to something else less expensive (and healthy) to do the job. Not going to give one dime of my money to taxes that I don't have to.

Maybe it's time to switch to pot. Probably cheaper without all the taxes. (Joking of course..)

@Pelagius:

AMEN! How does anyone possibly get the idea that cigarrette butts somehow don't count as litter?

One of the stupidest things I ever heard was "Camel cigarettes are the most environmentally friendly cigarette because they have an all-cotton, biodegradable filter." Idiot.

CUMAEANSIBYL is right that sin taxes can be an horrible way for governments to make revenue. If you use sin tax revenue to replace other general taxes which should be paying for government programs, then the budget for your city, state or country is going to be in deep doo doo when all of the smokers quit because they can't afford the taxes. You see, sin taxes were originally taxes to make you stop the "sin" now they just use them to replace other taxes, while hoping that people don't stop the negative behavior.

Everyone is going to SOL when all of the smokers stop smoking and all of that tax revenue disappears.

@Pelagius: thats what im sayin! i like my car, so stop throwing your cigarettes at it!

im going to start throwing burning pieces of wood out of the car because its not littering.

Why just tax the smokers? Come on let's be fair.
What about imposing more sin tax on all alcoholic beverages?

@testsicles:

And sorry, Testsicles, but nobody wants to look at your discarded cigarette butts even for a few days.

I say we douse the smokers in gasoline and set them on fire. That will teach them.

@Piquant1: Smoking and drinking will be a fair comparison when I start spitting alcohol into other people's mouths.

I should add that if they were serious about taxing health concerns and problems, alcohol should be taxed as well, but I guess their lobby is still strong and it's still ok to drink in this country.

And yes, I'm bitter about being singled out as a smoker and want to lead the drive to increase alcohol taxes, just to stick it to all you boobs who don't see the hypocrisy, despite the fact that I enjoy a few beers a week.

@Piquant1: What about imposing more sin tax on all alcoholic beverages?

Would you tax wine, which has shown to have some health benefits when taken in moderation? Or just the alcohol that allow all the kiddies to get tanked on at the bar?

And if you did that, would more people start buying cheap wine by the box to get hammered on the weekends? Interesting thought.

I say no tax on alcohol. It allows me to act a fool by myself, without litter, or subjecting you to negative health side affects. It also stays around those who willingly are around it (bars, parties, etc). Not quite a lock on the comparison.

@enm4r: I don't really want to smell your car or your fireplace or your latest dinner recipe either, but there isn't much I can do about those things, and very few people (including me) find that unreasonable. I don't much like the smell of cigarettes, but I don't believe it is my right to prohibit you from burning tobacco anywhere except your hermetically sealed bedroom. This is ostensibly a free country, and as such we're required to put us with certain inconveniences from time to time. Ridiculous regulations and punitive taxes beget more of the same - it is going to be a long and slippery spiral into a society where our every action is regulated, monitored, and micromanaged. I'd rather smell a little tobacco smoke than put up with that, personally.

I'm a smoker, but I'm having trouble mustering the outrage to speak out on this. Must be my lack of breath.

I think the blow is lessened significantly down south since the packs don't hurt the pocket book quite as bad as up north.

I'm more worried about the fact that pretty soon (within the next 5-10 years) states are going to be adopting much harder laws on smoking in public -period-. Many people are going to go "Good riddance" at the thought, but I don't know if I really care for the pleasure police muscling into every thing we do in our life.

@nequam: That was perhaps the best way to make the point we're making. Good show.

@Acambras, Pelagius, and Boandmichele
Amen.
People who wouldn't throw a candy wrapper out a window will throw twice the equivalent in stinking, dangerous cigarette butts in a week.

I had one bounce and get caught in my grill once...stunk up my whole car.

One intersection with a long red light in Fort Myers would have hundreds of butts littering the curb.

@enm4r (again): Great example with alcohol. I accept that as a consequence of alcohol being legal, cheap, and easily available, I may have to dodge the occasional intoxicated driver, fix vandalism caused by drunken neighborhood kids, or put up with belligerent idiots while grabbing a late night burger. I don't personally drink alcohol, but I don't feel it's my right to be vengeful and deny you a drink or tax you $5 a beer just because some people are asshats.

@acambras: You'll get over it.

Remember, cigarettes are like gasoline. The government makes most of the money off each unit sold.

@Piquant1: YES!

@nequam: It's not a fair comparison? (booze vs. smoke) Actually, it is. They are both legal. They are both for 'adults'
They both affect your health and are regulated by gov't. The only difference is social acceptability as clearly depicted by the non-smokers in this thread.

@enm4r: Wrong - I'm quite sure you've heard of DUI fatalities....

@acambras: Non-filter cigarettes burn out leaving only ash. That's not litter, that's ash. Ya know, carbon?

It's easier to tax the shit out of smokers because they are addicted. It's even easier, IMHO, to tax the drunks because, well, they're drunk. Both sides aren't going to change unless they choose to change.

Being a smoker, I don't care about tax, because there are plenty of ways to bypass it. (Read: RYO, Camel Parties, Indian reservations(my fave!), military PBX and a myriad other methods with RYO being the cheapest, easiest and most effective.

P.s. Pot is just about the same price as commercial cigarettes these days. Unless you're buying some HIGH grade shit... Not that I'm an expert on that *cough*

@nequam: Second-hand smoke is certainly irritating and cancer-causing in large doses, but I'm not sure if you can equate it to "spitting alcohol in someone's mouth". I mean as long as we're pulling out strawmen, then how many car accidents does smoking cause? How many families has it ruined?

I'm definitely going to be on the bad side of this argument, but that's ok I often like that side ;)

Truth of the matter is that people do obnoxious things that they find pleasurable, but other people in society don't. We draw a tolerance line based on socially acceptable norms. When people were smoking on their desks in the corporate offices with a little miniature fan blowing second-hand smoke around it was somehow less offensive then it is today to be huddled into a designated smoking area away from everyone else.

This study by the Ohio Department of Natural Resouces gives the breakdown of litter found on roadways. Cigarettes counted for 21% of the total BY MASS. That's a lot of friggin' butts.

Another interesting bit - they collected about 23 bags of poop during the survey.

I can't believe the level of indoctrination exhibited by the posters in this thread! Smokers have become America's punching bag par excellence. "Cigarettes, bad, comrade!" You people make me sick!

And the fact that they openly admit they want the money to fund some bullshit children's health insurance program makes the whole affair even more sickening to me. How about a tax on people who breed to support all the expense I have to absorb simply because you were too stupid to wear a condom? Or a tax on alcohol to offset the healthcare costs caused by drunk drivers? Or a tax on sports cars, to cover all the speeding-related accidents? Or a tax on older vehicles that pollute more? or a tax on just about every other facet of human life that has some tangentially-related minor effect on something else?

I'm sorry, but this is the bullshit of all bullshits. And for the record, I'm not a smoker, nor is anyone in my household. I just don't believe we should tax people just because their particular behavior is socially stigmatized.

Thank God I buy my smokes on an Indian Reservation...no taxes and dirt cheap! :oD

The biggest problem that I see with this new law is that cigars are being lumped in with Cigs. They are two very separate and distinct products.

50% of the manufacturers price is stupidly high. A cigar that cost a retailer (completely hypothetical numbers) $4 that he sells for $6 would go up to $8. So on a box (25) you're seeing a jump from $150 to $200. 33% increase? Come on.

On cigs it only works out to be about 12% (assuming a pack of smokes costs about $5). Why such a large increase on the cigar smoking population who is in a whole much healthier than cigarette smokers?

Soon it will be cheaper to import Cubans and risk customs finding them with taxes like this. Hopefully Bush vetos this.

Way to encourage the black market, Democrats. Good job. I hope all you anti-smokers are prepared for increased crime.

Yeah, fun times ahead.

@Pelagius: Yes, and much of that was likely Cleveland. Have you ever been to Cleveland? It's quite a dirty town. I know, I live here. I think it's hilarous that the report also states: "Alcoholic beverage containers, including glass, plastic, metal, and paper, comprised 18 percent"

proportional increases to all tobacco products? Even cloves? This sucks.

@Art Vandelay:
While I hate to encourage screwing over an entire group of people, it sounds like you took and made the best of a crappy situation. I just wish everyone else had the good sense to do what you did.

I applaud TODDKRAVOS and ALK509 for clear-headed reasoning. I was going to point out the same things, albeit less eloquently, but they beat me to it.

If the "sin taxes" serve the noble purpose of eliminating a thing (id est smoking), why not simply outlaw smoking? Because a law against smoking wouldn't pass, and because the nobility is a red-herring. It makes it palatable to raise taxes on someone while the noble cause the money is going to prevents us from asking why the federal government is embarking on a program that it cannot afford.

@gundark: Now you're making me feel bad for letting my spite well up and posting it :(

Why do you think cities institute CITY-WIDE indoor smoking bans?

Granted, indoor smoking bans in some buildings makes total sense (federal buildings, offices, etc.). Why can't they leave it up to privately-owned restaurants, bars, etc to decide for themselves whether to ban smoking at their establishment?

The reason why is: If a smoker has a choice between a smoke-free and a smoke-allowed restaurant, guess where they'll choose? There are a significant amount of smokers out there (despite what the brain-washed majority out there thinks), enough to provide an economic incentive to not deter their patronage. Which would eventually create a capitalistic, free-market setting for businesses to decide for themselves to ban smoking.

But instead, the non-smokers decide to legislate their self-serving desires over a minority. That interferes with capitalism (just like the taxes) and is completely facist, just to serve the will of a bunch of non-smoking bigots.

@enm4r: Actually, it's not *MY* problem if you don't like the smell of my smoke. I don't like the smell of your cheeseburger at the table next to mine - can I have that banned, please? Oh, that perfume you're wearing is making me sick - tax please!
In fact, don't even breathe near me, since you're "affecting my airspace" with the bacteria and viruses that you are carrying! What if you cough aloud and give me some horrid disease? Oh boo hoo, cry me a f*king river.

Oh, as for your actions affecting others - yes, if you drive a mountain bike down the hill at 25mph and smash into my car, and cause my insurance to rise - that is a problem.
If you eat a lot of meat and have heart troubles, you are collectively causing my insurance premium to rise. Can I PLEASE get that banned? I don't eat meat, why should I suffer for that??!

Can we levy a tax on alcohol to offset all the possible negative effects of excessive alcohol consumers (DWI, liver damage, domestic abuse etc)?

You can't support this just because you don't like it or because it suits you. Fair is fair.

@alk509: You might be the most sensible person in this thread.

@toddkravos:

@acambras: Non-filter cigarettes burn out leaving only ash. That's not litter, that's ash. Ya know, carbon?

Meh, if I show a little naivete about smoking, it's because I try to stay away from it, and I have a bunch of non-smokers as family members, friends, and co-workers (I consider myself lucky).

So they burn out... so if you're not putting them out before throwing the paper and unsmoked tobacco on the ground, you leave them burning and toss them on the ground? Yeah, that sounds like a smart idea.

@Skiffer: As of 2004 22% of the US population smoked. Why should the other 78% be subjected to the cocktail of poisons you decide to inhale? I don't go around spitting beer in peoples' mouths. At least, not on most weekends.

To compare sin taxes:
There's an average state tax of .26/gal on beer. This works out to about 2 cents a bottle.

The average state tax on cigs is 1.00/pack. This works out to about 5 cents a cig.

I have no problem at all with taxing the heck out of cigarettes, alcohol, and other luxury items. It truly is a voluntary tax, just like the lottery. Cigarettes and alcohol are not necessary to sustain life, and therefore are luxuries. The government has a long history of taxing luxury items in order to fund programs that are trying to solve society's issues. I am all for it. If you don't want to pay the luxury tax, then don't indulge in the luxury item. Simple as that.