Best Buy is on the offense, launching an internal witch hunt to unmask the “rogue employees” responsible for exposing Geek Squad’s pervasive culture of porn pilfering. Their first victim is the Geek Squad supervisor of the Santa Clarita store, one of the only Best Buy locations whose former employees were quoted in recent articles, print as being a center for porn pilfering.
Former Geek Squad agent Brett Haddock, quoted in recent articles in the Minneapolis Star-Tribune and the LA Daily News, reports, “I have confirmation that the direct Supervisor of the Geek Squad in the Santa Clarita store was asked to step down, but I do not have exact numbers right now as to how many employees have been terminated.”
Furthermore, Haddock says that some of his fellow coworkers are none too happy with his whistleblowing. “Some employees have been terminated as a direct result of the articles,” writes Haddock. “Said employees are a tid bit “miffed” with me, and the article I rode in on. I have already been sent text messages and emails from people upset with “what I did.”
I’m standing up for what I believe is moral and right. I’m sorry for any legitimately innocent person that works for Best Buy whom was wrongfully terminated. It is obvious that Best Buy will seek a fall guy for the incident, so they can site it as “an isolated one” but what they do not realize is the stories that run on Consumerist.com depict a nationwide epidemic with Agents of the Geek Squad.”
Hopefully, Best Buy/Geek Squad’s vigor will extend to a systematic investigation of every single Geek Squad for possible breaches of customer privacy. An isolated report from a Geek Squad agent in the northeast that they had to remove their precinct’s harddrives and mail them to Geek Squad headquarters to check for “privacy issues” could be signs of steps in the right direction.
PREVIOUSLY: Best Buy To Sue Geeks Who Spoke Out Against Porn Stealing?
(Photo: tellumo)
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@nequam: “Funny how you call BURAN wrong for saying its a criminal issue, but then reveal in your reply to my comment that you aren’t sure.”
No, what I said was that it wasn’t the criminal issue Buran said it was. I go on in my reply to your comment to cite what BURAN had said. Here’s the relevant part for you from the comment I made that you’re replying to:
“asserting that it was a criminal act of computer trespass for them to snoop. Clearly it is not.”
I went on to say that according to you, there may in some places be other State statutes that cover what you referred to. If my comment to BURAN is still unclear to you, please let me know.
As to the statute you cite, here’s the relevant part: “(2) Knowingly accesses and without permission takes, copies, or
makes use of any data from a computer, computer system, or computer
network, or takes or copies any supporting documentation, whether
existing or residing internal or external to a computer, computer
system, or computer network.”
This wouldn’t apply because the customer gives permission to access and copy (backups) when they sign the computer in. The code would have to be re-written in a more specific manner to define how and where the data may be copied when permission is given.
@cde: There is a federal statute, but it is limited in scope as compared to representative state statutes (including California). The scope of preemption also is limited.
@dbeahn: Don’t rephrase your own comments. What you said is: “I never said it didn’t violate laws. It isn’t, however, a criminal issue. You did say it was a criminal issue. You were wrong.” There is no qualifying language in this statement. What you said is that it is not a criminal issue. period. You may have meant something else, but you didn’t write it.
Also, your reading of the statute is stilted. The statute in fact is broad in how it frames unauthorized access. The scope of permission defines how the data may be used. Assuming a customer gives permission to make backup copies, that would not include copies for the tech’s personal use.
You get all hot and bothered. Consider using that energy to get a law degree.
@nequam: I didn’t “rephrase” anything. Maybe you should read the entire comment, since the part I even copied and pasted for you came later in the comment you referred to? I literally copied and pasted from my original comment the section you refer to when you say “Don’t rephrase your own comments.”
Yes, I said, as you correctly quote, “I never said it didn’t violate laws. It isn’t, however, a criminal issue. You did say it was a criminal issue. You were wrong.”
Later in that same comment, I went on to clarify that he had:”made a moronic statement in asserting that it was a criminal act of computer trespass for them to snoop. Clearly it is not.”
You get very holier than thou. Consider using that energy to improve your reading comprehension.
You still haven’t established that it is ANY sort of criminal issue, even in the State of California. The statute makes no mention of the scope of permission, other than to say one either has, or does not have, said permission to access, copy, etc. It goes on to define a few, select areas where some sections of the statute specifically doesn’t apply (as provided in subdivision h). It doesn’t in any way state or imply that said permission comes with any qualifications, restrictions, etc. etc. Because of that a court would have to rule on each action.
The statute DOES define:
(8) “Injury” means any alteration, deletion, damage, or
destruction of a computer system, computer network, computer program,
or data caused by the access.
(9) “Victim expenditure” means any expenditure reasonably and
necessarily incurred by the owner or lessee to verify that a computer
system, computer network, computer program, or data was or was not
altered, deleted, damaged, or destroyed by the access.
Good luck proving injury or expenditure because your porn was copied (generally speaking. In specific cases where someone posts some amature nude pics stolen by the geek squad on a pay for porn site then maybe you could prove injury and expenditure)
Setting all that aside, there’s another problem with your argument. Specifically that any “scope of permission” would be defined by the document that the customer signs when giving the computer to Best Buy. No matter what the customer may think, or what the customer may say, it is what the customer SIGNS that defines said permission. We don’t seem to have a copy of the document that frames the permissions that you’re trying to argue.
Again, my guess is that BBY legal has covered this in the boilerplate to protect the company from possible civil action that would follow criminal procedures against one of their employees. No way to prove that without a copy of that contract, which I don’t have handy.
Of course it’s stealing. They are taking something that isn’t theirs. Doesn’t matter the genesis of the thing in question. If you steal a stolen car, you still stole it. If you copy an MP3 that has gone around the internet a million times, if you don’t have a license from the artist/record company, you’ve stolen it. Even if the porn is stolen, you are accessing and copying data that isn’t yours to have. Stealing.
@swalve: Yes, but are you going to call the cops and say “Hey, someone stole the car that I stole!!!”?
As a current geek somewhat familiar with procedure, Best Buy has very strict policies concerning any employee speaking to the media; that’s likely the official reason for the supervisor and others being fired. It’s bad enough with the crap a sup has to deal with, but you’re plain asking for it if you’re going to make an obvious break in reg.
As for the acts done by whatever the hell location did it, those caught deserve whatever come to them. You do your job wrong and you get terminated, period. But I don’t know why people are blowing this up like it’s the discovery of Jesus’ bones or something. This is hardly new. Hell, I’ve peeped a few times while performing data backups when at times customers will be open enough to straight up tell me what they have and get my fill of laughs.
To clairfy the current article, precincts are being asked to hook up their hard drives and flash drives to their main pc so corporate can take a look at them. It’s definitely a less than aggressive posture they’re taking, but they’re certainly not deaf.
@dbeahn: Ha ha ha ha.
Nice job cutting and pasting definitions. Now go back and read that neither of those definitions have anything to do with whether a crime has occurred, but rather what the potential penalties are. And here’s the kicker: Those penalty provisions do not apply to 502(c)(2). Rather, they apply to (c)(3), (c)(6), (c)(7) and (c)(8). The other subsections of (c) carry criminal penalties without regard to injury or expenditure.
Oh, I didn’t argue what the substance of the permissions might be. In fact, it was YOU who stated that: “the customer gives permission to access and copy (backups) when they sign the computer in.” I then responded that “assuming” that to be the case ….
Do you see the problem here? I agreed with you for purposes of my comment. Yet you’re now trying to use that against me. Bravo!
@Buran: Jaywalking is also a violation of the Patriot Act. Any crime can be considered domestic terrorism according to it.
@dbeahn: The victim of someone posting their pics online couldn’t get restitution from that stature because that is not a violation of it. They would need to fight under other statures, such as copyright infringement or sexual harrasment.
The big problem I have is that homemade pornography and private media stolen by Geek Squad employees have the potential of making it’s way onto filesharing websites and online forums. Not really pleasant to think that friends or family might inadvertantly become famous because of something that was suppose to remain private. I actually believe that victims of this practice should be allowed to sue for punitive damages and personal grief.
Talk about making a big fuss out of something not worth the time.
People, theyre stealing porn. If you have porn on your computer and drop it off at a desk of young, underpaid geeky men with unlimited storage space, you’d be stupid to believe theyre not going to copy the good stuff.
Just be thankful that this wasnt about Geek Squad employees stealing all your online banking passwords out of the autocomplete feature in your web browser.
Want to curb porn-stealing? Firing them won’t help. It just reinforces the fact that the higher-ups have no way of monitoring whats going on, so theyre relying on the shotgun method of discipline. Hire competent, well-trained supervisors and it would be a different story.
@TOPCAT “Just be thankful that this wasnt about Geek Squad employees stealing all your online banking passwords out of the autocomplete feature in your web browser.”
That would be more important than anything said on this blog about this subject by far, but that doesn’t bring in the click-thru’s like Porn does so obviously it’s slated for a later article…. much later
Y’know what, this shit is just plain petty. Heck, let’s even throw aside the Geek Squad angle. If you bring your computer to a repair tech at ANY retailer, DUH, he (or she) is probably going to look through it if they’re bored enough (or if they need to do so to accomplish the job).
Is it right? No. But there isn’t jack shit you can do about it, nor is there anything the repair vendor can do about it aside from hire someone to stand over the shoulder of the guy doing the work. Just what the hell do you expect be done about it (within realistic reason)?
You guys don’t report these stories out of any sort of nobility. You’re just looking for whatever dirt you can dig up to throw in the face of “the man” just for sport. This then triggers witch hunts company-wide, people get canned for sneezing wrong, and all sorts of new bureaucracy and red tape complicates everything in ways that end up accomplishing little except killing productivity, and generally makes the job even more miserable.
Grow the fuck up.
If you’re worried about some stranger browsing your pr0n, then learn to back up your shit so that you won’t need him to retrieve it when your drive goes bust.
it may seem “morally right” to blow the whistle on something like this. but what this idiot agent doesnt understand is he’s potentially hurting agents that had nothing to do with this whole thing. Geek Squad agents generally get paid between $9 and $13 per hour. This is garbage wages for a technician. This agent thinks he can right the company by telling corporate about the actions of his fellow agents… Brett Haddock: they dont give a SHIT about YOU!! The only thing corporate worries about is making the numbers and to do that they pay talented (generalization) young people shit wages. That is disrespect, I believe. Brett Haddock, go to hell.
Okay…here’s the deal. Repair people are nothing more than salespeople with an incentive to sale things. I’m not familiar with Best Buy’s policies but if they are like other places I’ve been around, the techs do have quotas to meet.
By meeting those quotas, they are not guaranteed anything…not even keeping their job.
So…a tech who does his job well, meets his quotas, could still be terminated, as a friend was, for not selling enough useless repairs. I mean come on…virus scans? Defrag the HD? Install an external HD?
If you have any technical item and do not know how to use it, then you have no business having it. It’s irresponsible.
But for Best Buy to punish employees on a hunch..is proof positive of what kind of company that they have become.
We saw evidence of it when they began segregating consumers into Suzie Homemakers, Flash tech people, and Devils who came in for loss leaders only. Then we saw it when they became even more contentious with their return policy…people buying laptops and never having taken possession of it, being charge 15% restocking fees.
And we have seen it as their return policy and price match policy have been reduced to pretty much in name only. Have you ever tried to return something to Best Buy?
You have to stand in line for upwards of an hour at times, and then the item is taken from you and given to a tech to test and only if the tech can replicate your problem will you be compensated.
Best Buy is the role-model for companies with bad customer relations policies. They continue to succeed in spite of how they have treated their customers. It’s sort of like a case of battered-spouse syndrome…we know they are going to batter us and we keep going back to forgive them.
The whole thing has gotten silly and out of hand.
This is really upsetting. Most of the Geek Squad members at the Santa Clarita Best Buy are friends of mine, and I’ve never known any of them to do any of this. Them getting canned for this crap is absurd and unfair. Getting fired for actually stealing from customers? Fine. But for being in the same store as a whistle-blower? Uh-uh.
I’m on the fence about my feelings toward this Brett guy (still don’t remember him). I’m all for the rights of whistle-blowers, but I don’t feel like he actually helped anyone here. Copying files that have already been stolen off of file-sharing sights isn’t exactly much of a crime. And some of the tasks customers expect computer technicians to perform directly involve them going through personal files. When you have someone work on your computer it’s much more than letting them into your home. It’s more like asking them to work, unassisted, in your bedroom and bathroom for a few hours and go through whatever drawers and closets might be related to the problem.
More reasons why not to go to the Geek Squad. They have no standards for their employees, and the good ones get fired when the average ones put them in a bad light.
@TYRONESHOELACES
They didn’t punish on a hunch. They fired people who spoke out saying they stole customers data. I think its great how much this website has spread so much hate for one company that when they fire an employee for admitting to the press that they stole data they get a bad wrap for it.
The staff here has also proven how childish they are by doing this report finding that someone stole their data and then refusing to admit who it was. It’s hard to hold the accountable parties responsible when you don’t know who they are. Then you bash the company for not firing that person you refuse to name? what the hell.
What about the photo-processing centers that have to ‘verify’ the contents of the photograph before printing? what about the many ppl that print ‘extra’ copies of your prints – or refuse to print photographs that are legal , but conflict with their ‘corporate morals’? Any time you allow another person access to your home (appraisals, movers, cleaners/maids), car (repair shops, touch-up/detailers), and even computer, you put yourself at risk for individuals to take the opportunity to poke through your stuff. I think that underpaid employees lead to higher rates of this. Crimes of opportunity are just that – if you give them the opportunity to do it, most likely it will happen. I used to work for GS *(store/state/name/etc will NOT be mentioned). We have lead authorities to arrest people for child pornography when we had to look around a hdd to figure out where all the data is being ‘used’ on an ‘empty’, fresh-OS-installed computer that a non-tech-savvy user brought in to have an extra hdd put in. essentially he just wanted more room for kiddie porn — who figured!? We have had customers come in asking us JUST to back up their porn….. “oh, and [their] anniversary-dinner pics too”
Our information-age technology doesn’t really allow for anyone to remain private outside their homes (and with the internet and remote/wireless/internet cameras — inside either). CYA – it’s too late to worry about that porn being found AFTER your computer breaks. Dont want it found, dont leave it on there. and for GOD’s sake, dont have it as your BACKGROUND!!
@TyroneShoelaces:
if you have any technical item and do not know how to use it, then you have no business having it. It’s irresponsible.
I could not agree more. How can you own somting with out a basic working knowlage of it? I don’t own a single thing that I don’t atleast know the bascs of how it works (yes that includes my TV, Car, Toliet, Refridgerator, Computer, Cell Phone, Toaster ect ,ect ,ect)
I meen comon? How can you use somthing every day and have no idea how it works? If that i was me, the world would be a truley frightening place.
I am in no way saying im an expert in everything, but i will say, there is very few problems that people bring into best buy that they shouldn’t be able to figure out on your own.
Did you know best buy uses 90% freeware and demos to diagnose and fix your computer?
It’s just the average consumer is to stupid (or lazy) to figure it out own there own.
computers are NOT that complex and they have not changed that much since the 70s (if anything they have gotten simpler)
If you don’t know how a computer works, or how to fix the basics (harddrive replacement, backing up data, OS install, ect) on your own, you shouldn’t be using one in the first place.
Its like owning a gun and pointing it in the wrong direction because you don’t know how it works.
The context in which “porn” is used in this instance refers to personal pictures of people in a compromising fashion, ie, “Amateur porn” as it were. Personal pictures that people take of their Wives/girlfriends/themselves etc, things that are NOT freely available on the internet.
@agent2600:
“It’s just the average consumer is to [sic] stupid (or lazy) to figure it out own [sic] there [sic] own.”
Pot, meet kettle.
I have never posted on this site, but after reading some of this, felt the need to help end some of the debate. THIS IS NOT ILLEAGAL. This has already been ruled on by the high courts. Now this is taken from memory so may not be 100%, but i’m sure someone with more time can find the case file. I want to say it was 4 or 5 years ago and if i remember correctly i think it was actually Circuit City that was involved. The courts ruled that when you hand over your PC are giving permission to everything on that computer. I remember in the case notes they felt this fit under the same statue as a previous case that was already ruled on. That case involved a car that was taken to the shop and drugs where found in the trunk. The owner who was arrested used the argument that it was illgeal search and tresspass because the shop had no reason to open the trunk. As you can imaigne he lost as the courts ruled that when you hand over your property to another individual you give up your rights to search and tresspass. If i find the case and get approved i will post it. That being said i in no way think it is right, just not illegal.
Next thing, for all those that think this is a Best Buy problem or a pay problem please take your heads out of the sand. I have been in the computer industry for many years and i have seen very well paid people fired for the same thing. Also, know of many other companies this happens at. I can tell you that i know of cases where a manufacturer has returned computers unrepaired and notified the police because child porn was found. I won’t tell you the name of the company cause this isn’t about them, but how do you think they found it. Someone had to be looking through the files on the computer. That’s what has sorta had me torn on these issues. If you look at many cases of child porn they are often uncovered by someone uncovering them on the perps computer. So, while the person should not have been looking through the files, this led to the arrest of someone who is a sick sick person. Or how about the Circuit City(?) employee who recently uncovered a terroist plot to attack a military base because he looked through the files on a customers computer? I don’t recall one story why he was invading the customers privacy, i do recall a lot of stories on how he was a hero.
So like many things this is not a black and white issue. To me if it means more sick pervets get caught with child porn cause techs are looking through files, go ahead and look at my files when i drop my computer off. Sadly, i am one of the few that feel this way.