July 2, 2007
VIA CERTIFIED MAIL
Leslie H. Wexner
CEO, Limited Brands Inc
THREE LIMITED PKWY
P.O. Box 16000
Columbus, OH 43216Sharon J. Turney
President and Chief Executive Officer, Victoria’s Secret
CEO, Limited Brands Inc
THREE LIMITED PKWY
P.O. Box 16000
Columbus, OH 43216Dear Mr. Wexner & Ms. Turney,
I write to inform you of an incident that occurred this Saturday at your Victoria’s Secret store located in SoHo, Manhattan at 565 Broadway (Store #774). Despite producing an original sales receipt, the credit card used to make the purchase AND a United States Permanent Resident Card (commonly known as a “green card”), I was denied the right to return a $24.99 bra that I purchased just one week and one day earlier. Your manager, Jackie, cited a “new return policy” that deems my U.S. government issued identification worthless in the eyes of your undergarment retail giant.
It all began when I attempted to return a bra that I had purchased for my mother (she didn’t like the color) at another one of your stores located in Westchester County on the 22nd of June. The bra was just one portion of a purchase totaling $93!! After waiting on line for nearly 10 minutes, only to be told that I had to go to a different register because, unbeknownst to me, returns were being processed at one specific terminal, After waiting on line again, I was greeted by a very rude and condescending cashier. I produced the bra and my receipt (copy annexed) along with the credit card used to make the purchase. After starting the return process, the clerk requested photo identification. My student ID wasn’t sufficient, nor was a credit card bearing my photo.
Given no other options, I reached into the depths of my wallet to pull out a form of identification that I use a total of once or twice a year when I travel on vacation to Europe. I don’t even like to carry it around with me. It is the most precious and most official form of identification that I posses. It is my Permanent Resident Card issued by the United States Department of Immigration and Naturalization!
If you are unfamiliar with the Permanent Resident Card, in addition to bearing my name, a photo and a fingerprint, it also contains a plethora of other personal data regarding my immigration status. I am always reluctant to share this information with anyone but those who have a legitimate need for it ( i.e. Airport Customs & Security).
Like a good million (or four!) other New York City residents, I do not have a drivers license because I DO NOT DRIVE! While I was a bit hesitant to hand the Victoria’s
Secret cashier my Permanent Resident Card, I had already invested 20 minutes of my personal time to make the still incomplete return, and so I caved and handed it over.
To my utter dismay and disbelief, the cashier nastily responded, “I can’t use this, this is no good.” After requesting to speak to a supervisor, Jackie, the manager on duty, cited a “new return policy” that demanded the production of either a drivers license or passport. According to Jackie, the new computerized return system “will not accept the numbers” on my green card. I even offered to accept store credit in lieu of a cash refund (which in hindsight, I was weak for even suggesting. I have a RIGHT to return the merchandise. It says so on the receipt!). There were no exceptions, according to Jackie. I could not return the bra.
To have a retail store tell you that your Permanent Resident Card, an identification document issued by the United States federal government, a document that sufficiently establishes my right to live here, to exit and enter this country without a visa, a card that proves my status as a Permanent Resident of the United States – a status that affords me nearly the same rights that a naturalized citizen has (with the exception of the right to vote and Social Security benefits, if you want to point out two of the most important differences) — is “no good,” is an attack on my identity.
Never in my life have I been so frustrated. Here was one of your store managers telling me, a long time paying customer of your brands, in front of my boyfriend and everyone else on line, that I can’t return a $24.99 bra because my green card “isn’t good enough” to prove that I am who I say I am. I was reduced to tears as I stormed out of the store though a chaotic crowd of weekend shoppers. Yes I had caused a scene, and yes, I was utterly embarrassed. My $93 was good enough for Victoria’s Secret when I went on one of my nearly once a month shopping sprees at what used to be one of my favorite stores on earth. Yes I can get a non-driver’s ID from New York State, but in all my years of living in New York City, in all my years of living in this COUNTRY, I have never had a need for one. NOT ONCE. To get a new form of identification simply so I can enjoy the “privilege” of returning merchandise to one of your stores, is absolutely absurd!
Maybe I’m not good enough to shop at Limited Brands stores. Maybe I should wait until my citizenship track is approved by the INS before I reapply for return privileges at Victoria’s Secret. By then I’m sure you will have a fully implemented and operational biometric return clearance system that performs a DNA analysis against a database of career “retail-store ripper-offers.” Maybe then, your computer will be smart enough to point out to your sales clerk that I spend hundreds of dollars a year at your stores so maybe they should treat me with a little dignity and respect. Until then, all I can do is fight back. I will protest this return policy by urging all those similar situated to refrain from giving a single hard-earned cent to your company!
Truly yours,
RR
We’re willing to chalk most of it up to poor training, but that’s just plain rude behavior on the manager’s part. Why couldn’t Victoria’s Secret accept the green card? It’s got a bajillion pieces of personal information. Perhaps it’s because if you’re working at the SoHo Victoria’s Secret, you’re probably a vapid dipshit.
Rather than exiting in tears, though, RR might have been better served by calling Victoria’s Secret corporate right then and there. Maybe HQ would’ve been able to set this store straight. In any event, Victoria’s Secret should write an apology letter, let RR return the bra for a full refund, and maybe throw in a $25 gift card for good measure.
(Photo: AP)
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@B: “Traumatic” – no, but New Yorkers DON’T DRIVE – they don’t need to. And why on earth would anyone schlep to the DMV if they don’t have to.
i used to work at macy’s and it makes me laugh when people say “don’t you need my ID?” when returning stuff. i say, any store that asks for ID despite the receipt being present AND the customer asking for credit back to the original form of payment is just, well, hella ghetto (or have ghetto customers). But wow, victoria’s secret, ooooooOooh! I agree w/ the power trip/vapid bitch comment. I knew someone who worked at VS and her coworkers made her cry
)
@royal72: I loled
To comment on the VS bras being not worth it, IF you are the middle sizes, they do have the most comfortable bras and are worth the price. When I was in high school the most comfortable bra I ever owned was bought there and worth every penny. Now, post kids, the few bras they have in my size are very uncomfortable and I rarely bother looking there anymore.
As for this woman, her Green Card has her picture, it has her name, I am going to believe it says that it’s a US Permanent Resident Card on there, showing it’s a government ID. That should work. If they need to put numbers in their system, they should have just entered something like 999999 or whatever number/letter combo they need. I could even understand why the cashier could not, but the manager should have the say so to override and since she showed 3 forms of picture ID, one of which is from the US Government, it should have been accepted.
I worked for a bookstore in San Diego, CA and saw EVERY type of government ID you can imagine. If it had a picture, showed it was from a government entity (whether a state id, military, green card, whatever) we could and would accept it, no problems.
This poor woman should not have had to go through this hassle and I hope VS Corporate does right by her.
I’m baffled that she needs any ID at all to return a purchase when she has the receipt. I guess in theory someone could pull a scam of shoplifting an item, buying an identical item, then returning one of them – but I don’t see how that is more of problem than ordinary shoplifting.
It’s particularly puzzling from a company that does so much of its business through mail order.
If calling customer service doesn’t bring you any luck – then maybe buy the same product online and then return the defective one? Or as recommended above, work with your credit card company on a charge-back.
I am just disturbed that you can return any form of undergarment at all. When I buy bras from lingerie stores they are final sale because of the nature of the item.
@Boo: Ish, good point.
I like boobs, so I think all bras ought to be returned.
Period.
The line forms to the left.
What’s even more appalling is that this occurred in Manhattan! With the number of immigrants and tourists in NYC, you’d think that they would be more flexible concerning IDs.
And for the people telling her to just get another ID, that’s not the point. A photo ID issued by the federal government should have been more than sufficient.
I’d like to point out a few things (some of which have been pointed out in previous commments):
1) RR has never needed to get a NY non-DL ID before now. And if anyone knows about jumping through hoops, it’s someone who’s dealt with the INS.
2) She’s returning a fucking $25 bra at Victoria’s Secret. She’s not taking out a loan. She’s not applying for a job at NORAD. She’s not signing up for flight lessons.
3) The stuff about “the computer won’t take it” has got to be BS. What if the person is from Connecticut or New Jersey? Surely their DL # formats are different. Maybe it was just a cover for some smug, stuck-up, $8/hour retail employee with a chip on her shoulder to make her own little personal statement about the immigration debate. Or maybe her VS panties were in a bunch and riding up in the back.
4) I don’t know if RR’s first language is English, but her letter is great. A helluva lot better than some of the letters posted on Consumerist, which are riddled with misspellings, incorrectly-used words, and grammatical errors.
Honestly, making her spend more just to get another piece of identification is silly. But then, buying multiple items at least once per month at Victoria’s Secret? Does she regularly light the items on fire?
I’ve never had to show an ID to return an item with receipt EVER, and would never shop at a store that required one. No store needs my personal information on a return any more than they need it on a purchase–it’s just another identity theft opportunity. Victoria’s Secret is renowned for selling badly designed bras anyway (they’re a joke in the industry), so now there are two reasons not to shop there.
That`s odd that they needed an ID with a reciept but…
The cashier had no excuse when she was rude, but not accepting her green card might not have been her fault.
have any of you assholes ever worked in retail, the ones who are all up in arms, “BOYCOTT LOL”? There are some circumstances at Sears when the POS system asks for “DRIVERS LICENCE OR STATE I.D. CARD”. That`s it. No green card or whatever.
Shitty requirement but still.
@Boo: Really? I don’t see why bras should be final sale. They only come into contact with your breasts … nothing any more unsanitary than a shirt or a pair of pants. If a man can return a shirt, why can’t a woman return a bra? What if a woman doesn’t wear a bra under a shirt she wants to return?
Most of the places I patronize have no problem with exchanging or returning a bra — a service I find particularly important since the fit and comfort of a bra for a woman can be so tricky.
Some people here seem to think that it’s not the store employees’ faults because they couldn’t get an ID number that their computer would recognize. However, even if that were the case, the manager still should have done anything possible to get the item returned. She really should have called corporate herself and seen what could be done instead of just turning the customer away.
they want the ID because Limited Brands (the parent of VS) is very aggressive about tracking abuse returners and limiting/denying their right to return things.
less text more pics kthxbye
I don’t see the problem here. As many other posters have already pointed out, it’s very easy to obtain a state ID, if she truly has a valid Resident Alien card. If she doesn’t have that … she may be out of luck with the state ID, but she should still have a passport from her country of origin.
My guess here is that we are only hearing her version of the truth, and that there is more to the story than we are lead to believe. I’ve been a faithful VS customer for years, and have always been treated courteously, even when returning for whatever reason.
I travel abroad quite frequently, and when I attempt anything that requires ID, I show my passport. It’s really that simple. If I was in her country of origin, and attempted to return something, and I showed some piece of paper or whatever from that government, I would expect similar treatment.
Resident Alien’s are guests in this country, and a lot of people seem to forget that. When you are a guest in another country, you are expected to follow their rules, according to their culture. Many retailers are responding to increased fraud by requiring either a valid -*state*- issued ID, or a valid passport.
The comment of the computer not accepting the numbers is most likely a valid one. A driver’s license is issued by a STATE … not the federal government. A Resident Alien card is not a passport either, so it doesn’t fall into that category either.
I’ll keep shopping there, and she’s free to boycott whatever she wants. I am sure we all hear this kind of whining on a regular basis, but I don’t really pay it much attention.
How hard is it for the store manager to put in the numbers 555-555-5555 or whatever combo it took? She produced the receipt, the credit card with her PICTURE and her green card with her PICTURE. I think her frustration came from being in line so long and then putting up with a bunch of bullshit over a simple return. Its NEW YORK CITY, 3/4 of the people there don’t have a drivers license. I smell a gift card coming.
@jeffj-nj: Sorry I forgot to add the “For those with a partial or no frontal lobe the following line is a joke.” disclaimer. As far as ignorance goes, you are firmly in the lead. Congrats.
@chargernj: pretty soon? sorry, for many things & places that day is already here.
As an alien living permanently in a foreign country (not the US), I sympathise. But to say that not accepting your residence permit is “an attack on my identity” is just plain silly, and this person knows it. Do you really identify yourself solely as “an immigrant”? I sure as hell don’t.
Gah.
So simple, the solution here. I worked retail for well over ten years, and I was never presented with one of these documents. I’ve had a person arrested for fraud, I’ve refused transactions for lack of ID. Following the rules is good thing. Knowing when the rules don’t fit may be even more important.
Here is how a properly functioning retailer be set up so this letter would never have been written:
1) Explicitly declare in training materials that this is or is not an acceptable ID. Verify the training with testing, and make the list easily available to cashiers.
2) Between good staffing and good training, make sure your employees are empowered to make the right decisions in this situation. Cash registers that take ID numbers are great. Cash registers that can do a refund without ID numbers when needed are better. It’s understandable require management to bypass the ID entry if it’s an odd ID type, because cashiers are always in a hurry and many will skip steps if given a chance.
3) Empower managers to do nearly everything in the store. The manager needs the ability to look at a product and know that it came from their store, then look at a receipt and know that the customer is valuable, then ignore a policy that doesn’t make sense to the situation. No retailer should drop iron policies from above, because they should be smart enough to know that they can’t think of everything. If you staff the manager positions properly, your customers will love you.
I’m going to ahead and disagree with most of you. She had federally issued identification, the store should have processed the refund. If the system can’t accept green card numbers, the system needs to be fixed. Federal identification > corporate business policy. I don’t agree that it was an “attack” on her identity, but I can understand her frustration and feeling of being discriminated against. VS needs to change their computer system, and they should have – at the very least – apologized for THEIR mistake.
I would guess that VS tracks returns. As far as I know, you can’t resell underwear, so return abuses cause VS more problems than it would an electronics store. An electronics store may still be able to sell the item or get credit from the manufacturer.
Most people are not familiar with picture IDs other than state issed. The cashier would have no way of knowing how to tell a fradulent Permanant Resident Card from a real one. People who return items to scam the company will create fake IDs. Saying that the PRCs are complex means nothing- If you’ve never seen a US dollar how do you know monopoly money isn’t real?
I think that in the situation described the cashier was rude. However, a store can’t be required to accept returns on merchandise that isn’t to your liking, so they should be given the right to prevent abuse and fraud. Really, they don’t have to accept the return at all- there was nothing wrong with the bra.
BY THEKAPIL AT 10:40 AM
No. You have a right to free speech, but to return merchandise, you don’t
Huh? Of course she does! Her right to return is printed directly on her receipt, which spells out the merchant’s conditions for the return.
This person seems to have met all the criteria but unfortunately ran into two ignorant and stubborn employees who just dug in their heels and made a bad call even worse. i hope and believe her letter to corporate will get her an apology and appropriate compensation.
Many retailers require ID now to track returns as a way of preventing return abuse, and employee fraud.
Return Abuse = Customers over-using the return system- “renting” clothes for the weekend, etc.
Employee Fraud = An employee rings up a fake return, and pockets the refund.
I doubt that VS’s POS software is incapable of accepting the #’s on a green card- it’s likely a blank field, and will accept X amount of numbers and characters. This is the result of store employees not being trained enough to handle an unusual ID card, and blamed the computer.
Ouch. Yeah, I’m an international student advisor and I work with DHS and USCIS. Let me tell you that the green card ain’t something you dismiss as inconsequential. Go after ‘em, hon!
And isn’t it ironic that the retailers are more vigilant about checking official id’s for return fraud, but not for hiring people who actually have the right to work?
i’ve been rejected when trying to use my passport to buy beer (i had just lost my driver’s license and hadn’t gotten a replacement yet). the bartender claimed it was a “venue decision” not to accept passports. i concur it’s pretty ridiculous that something that takes *much* more time, money and effort to get than a driver’s license can be rejected so easily. and i don’t think i’ve ever seen a green card, but it sounds like a driver’s license would be much easier to fake.
also, if victoria’s secret’s online FAQ applies to their retail locations (which it may or may not), it looks like pretty much anything can be returned anytime:
“Refunds will be credited in the same form as they were paid if an item is returned within 90 days of purchase. If an item is returned more than 90 days after purchase, a return will be administered in the form of a merchandise credit redeemable with your next purchase.” [www2.victoriassecret.com]
@Ravenwaift: Your argument is non sequitur. Victoria’s Secret DOES have a return policy that allows customers to obtain a refund.
It’s not about a store being required to accept a return because the product wasn’t to the customer’s liking. It’s about Victoria’s Secret honoring the return policy that is clearly advertised on the back of the purchase reciept. I can understand if at the time of the purchase, RR was clearly informed (via signage or some other form or notification) that in order to return the item, she would need to produce certain forms of photo identification, of which, a permanent resident card is not sufficient. She could have then opted to terminate the transaction. Ex post facto notification of specific exceptions to the photo id requirements is simply not fair.
Finally, everyone who is making a big deal about “returning bras…ewwww,” GET OVER IT! RR never said it was worn. She said it was a gift and her mother didn’t like the color. If you honestly think stores don’t take back worn clothing, then you live in a cave. What’s the difference between returning a t-shirt or a bra? Yes, returning underwear is a bit of a different story, but get real, pick the most exclusive retailer you can imagine and bring along a microscope. I guarantee their panties will be crawling will all sorts of nasty things. This is why, ladies and gents, god invented hot water, Tide and something I like to call THE WASHING MACHINE!!!
 Man Karen’s dog is foxy like a wolf. We shot some Tao Lin video from the Royal Oak Salon. We laughed too loudly and the camera shook, but the poetry is the thing after all. Here is Anna McDonald’s reading at that lovely event.
@Ravenwaift: The cashier would have no way of knowing how to tell a fradulent Permanant Resident Card from a real one.
I bet the cashier would not be able to tell the difference between a Hawaii drivers’ license and a real one, either. So they should only accept NYS licenses, then?
Here’s one thing nobody has commented on: If the cashier had the right to reject a valid, US government-issued, form of identification then what’s stopping her from rejecting some other equally valid form? What if RR gets that NYS ID and the cashier decides that only drivers’ licenses are acceptable?
Yeah, I’ve had my military ID refused more than once, too.
THEKAPIL, she wasn’t saying she had the right to return the merchandise out of some grandiose sense of entitlement, but because it said so on the receipt.
Okay, I got tired of hearing some of this….
Yes, the cashiers were rude in the way that they handled it, but their systems are only capable of accepting certain types of ID. I work at The Limited, and we actually have to SCAN the IDs and run them through The Return/Exchange system, which is independent of our POS. This is a company-wide policy amongst Limited Brands (which is actually not our parent company anymore, but we still use it).
It is unfortunate that she was treated poorly but that really is the way it is. It makes me sad that no one in the store bothered to explain it to her in a kind manner because I never ever treat customers that way and am consistently shocked when others do.
I work at victorias secret and this is why the manager wouldn’t take her return.. I guess people don’t realize people steal around $1 billion a year and you wonder why our prices are high it’s partially because of the thieves!! yes she had a receipt, they can make fake ones because they steal our register paper. regarding the receipt the return policy is on the back it says a valid ID is “US state issued ID or Diver license, Canadian DL, Military ID, or passport”. I know at my store this is displayed at the register while you’re purchasing. We need the ID to scan into a machine; this is to catch the thieves, if you return too much you can be denied. So this whole process is to stop the people from stealing, so the cost of bras don’t go up, Its for your protection!! so get mad at the people who steal! Honestly this is just as annoying to us, it’s not like it’s fun for us to have to keep making new rules to keep people from stealing