Anyone else feel a little jarred how easily class is calculable? I think the thermometer read outs make it really unnerving...

Having a 4 year degree and automatically being in the 91st percentile is pretty pathetic. Especially when probably a solid 1/2 to 1/3 of the kids I knew/know in school are just there because that's what you do after high school, or because they're parents expected it.

@msb2:

I agree. And there is a large discrepancy in mine between education and wealth . . . I wonder (i.e. hope to all hell) that they match up more closely when I'm older . . .

I was really surprised that simply having a bachelor's degree puts you in the top 1/5, and "some college" in the top 2/5 (for education). I guess it's because of generational differences - older people were less likely to pursue post-secondary education. But I only know a handful of people under 30 who never went to college; most of them are unlikely to make it up to middle class (3/5).

I don't know that I've ever had a job that actually existed in these surveys.

What? I'm in the 70th percentile how? I work in a nonprofit and do not make big bucks compared to almost all of my college classmates who went into law, medicine, business. I won't break 6 figures in this lifetime. So I have a bachelor's degree -- how very special!

OK, I know I am privileged in the grand scale of human life in this world. And I am most grateful. Still... I agree with AnitraSmith above -- who doesn't get at least *some* college these days? The community colleges are absolutely booming. I think that's an oddly overweighted determinant of social class in this NYT model.

@AnitraSmith: You don't know many people without college education because your location, lifestyle, or contacts restrict the pool of people you COULD know to mainly just people who have gone to college.

People you know don't imply anything about people you don't. You know people through other people. If you went to college you know people who went to college who know people who went to college.

I know a lot of both, because I went to college, but no one else in my family did.

I noticed that "Age" isn't a factor, which I guess makes sense...

but I would suppose that's what puts me in the bottom quartile of net worth (student loans, recent first home purchase)when everything else is top quartile...

Average: 75th percentile. It puts me right where I see myself: upper middle.

I read the whole series of articles on wealth from the NYT when they were initially published. The entire series is worth the read.

As a current college student, I find myself classless...but still classy!

@gamble: Stay in class.

Interesting, although I noticed that no government/military occupations were listed. Sure many have civilian equivalents, but some do not. From the discussion on digg you'll notice that Military is on the second tab ("How class breaks down") so perhaps it was deliberately (or accidentally?) left out.

@Skiffer:

I agree! Age could make a difference. And I'm also under the student loan/recent home purchase umbrella.

Let's call a spade a spade... what about status symbols? A lot of us righteously use the metrics of education or career type, intelligence, and income, but quite frankly class in its meaningful form is a perception of the general public, and you've got to add in the status symbols.

And "poor" wealth =

@timmus:
I'm pretty sure that they indicated that $50-100k was "average" net worth.

I have a friend who never set foot into a college in his life, got some computer certs, and now makes six figures a year. If he charted it would show him in the lower area somewhere.

Odd...

Overeducated and underpaid, that's me!

This is old news - the NYT published this feature back in 2005.

I'm in the top fifth? Yeah right. If that's true, why do I feel so poor?

Interesting that location doesn't seem to be a factor. Sure, my salary might make me upper middle class in some parts of the country, but people here in Connecticut look upon me with pity.

@TechnoDestructo: I totally agree with you. In my group of friends that I have known most of my life I am the only one to finish college, and of course I still know some people from when I went to college.

As a side note, I make more money than my degree would indicate, but at the same time my brother is just a high school graduate and makes more money than me and has more savings. I would rank higher than him using that graphic but in real life he is certainly better off.

@TechnoDestructo: You are exactly right TechnoDestructo!

I grew up in a rural area in the south where everyone was very working class. As a kid, the only people I knew with college degrees were my teachers, my doctor, and one of my uncles. There are lots of places like that in America, it's just that some people haven't had contact with them.

And one should not forget that there are many areas in the US (inner cities and some rural) that still have alarmingly high school drop out rates. And there are probably tons of illegal alien kids that fall through the statistical cracks - they tend to be transients and I'm sure many schools, not knowing where they disappear to, report them as transfered to another school when they have in reality dropped out.

So according to that little chart with my college education and being an insurance udnerwriter, Im middle class. Yeah sure I own a house but I barely make it every month.

Maybe they should link this article with the one the other day that said our current generation is the first to make less than our parents did.

@enm4r: Yeah but you would be amazed how many of them never finish. I know two people who are SIX credits short of a bachelor's degree and just dropped out because they were "tired of going to school".

Stupid. I know you can make big bucks (or just a decent living wage)without a college degree but that's just dumb.

@msb2: I was once really freaked out by how much energy and detail marketers put into determining class. Whether you have a family room, for example, is a class marker. There was much more, but that was what I remembered. It felt dehumanizing then, and still does.

A computer support specialist gets more prestige than a designer? That doesn't seem right to me.

@AnitraSmith: When I first heard what the real percentages were on people who went to college versus those who didn't, I was surprised and disbelieving also. Everyone I knew in high school planned to go to college, and I didn't go to an especially wealthy high school. But as I got out into the working world more--not, incidentally, having finished college; I didn't get my bachelor's until I was nearly 27--I found many, many more people my own age who never went. Because of the context in which I knew them, they mostly had homes and families and more or less what I have now, with an advanced degree. That was rather eye-opening about the true value of a college education. I mean, I was raised with the belief that if I didn't go to college, the best I could ever expect from life was to work at McDonald's. I'm still a little irritated with the people who told me that. It wasn't fair.

@jerkasaurus:

Yes, what jerkosaurus said... Location has so much to do with social class in relation to income. In the megalopolis of the Northeast (essentially the D.C. to Boston shoreline corridor), very high costs of living and high salaries paid to top executives make it hard for 70th-percentile folks like me to do much more than exist. And no, I won't move... we have family, careers, kids in school here, etc. So we just kvetch about it. ;-)

@enm4r: "just there because that's what you do after high school, or because they're parents expected it."

But that's an enormous part of what "class" is -- cultural expectations. Almost definitionally if college is the "expected" or demanded post-high-school outcome, you're upper-middle class. Going to college in and of itself doesn't make you any particular class, but the expectations that you go to college with say a LOT about your class background.

Class is about an awful lot more than just money. For example, there are a lot of lower-income jobs, particularly in non-profit work, higher education, and certain kinds of journalism that are characteristic of the children of the upper-middle-class or upper class who didn't have to pay for college themselves and so can AFFORD to do interesting but low-paying work.

Everybody should read Paul Fussell's "Class" which is a little outdated, but an uproariously funny and painfully true look at class in America.

An education is its own reward. Widespread recognition of this point is exemplified by the high class stratum a college grad occupies on the NYT scale without regard to profession, income or net worth. One gets (or should get) an education to better himself or herself. Often this translates to a better job, higher pay, etc. What is really at stake, however, is a person's ability, through education, to place himself or herself in the position to do something meaningful with his or her life. Again, this is not necessarily tied to the amount one earns, but is more a matter of personal satisfaction and contribution to family, community, etc.

So, Im in the top 5th for education, but bottom 5th for income. Blah! Of course, Im in grad school right now with a little admin job to pay the bills, so hopefully in a year or two I can get my income up in the middle class range.

I was just coming in here to recommend Fussell's "Class", and Eyebrows McGee (great name!) beat me to it. A fascinating read.

personally, i define class in only two classes: working class & non-working class, defined as those who actually work for a living & those who sit on their asses.

interestingly, the non-working class wraps a stranglehold around the working class using my definition.

Age should definitely be a factor. I'm in the boat with others as I have a Masters (putting me in the top 5th) but I don't earn that much because I have to build experience. Also I am a new homeowner and have the student loan curse over me too. College is great but definitely not everything. My friend works for a pest control company and his g/f for a real estate company and they earn more (about 20k net) then my wife and me. The difference...My wife and I have a total of 3 degrees and they have nothing but HS diplomas. Plus we have more debt from student loans.

.....I was hoping to score a bit lower than I did, actually. Evidently, a blue-collar manufacturing manager didn't fit into their equation. I hit 49th percentile on Management/all other categories.

....."Some college" (majored in beer, and Dungeons and Dragons) puts you in upper middle class? That seems skewed!

.....If you put your house and 401-k in the wealth calculation, you'll be a noble every time...

@justinph

I think alot of that has to do with the relative glut of "designers" (or designer wannabes) out there vs. the actual number of decent design jobs. I think there's an old joke at the college i graduated from that goes something like:

"The engineering major asks 'how', the sociology major asks 'why', and the art major asks 'do you want fries with that'"

its important to remember, though, that these surveys were taken of new york times readers (or, at least BY the times). So you have to take the subjective questions with a grain of salt.

83 for me

@joyflop:

Me, too!

:D

@ElizabethD:
Because you think "who doesn't go to college these days," you're middle class.:)

It is easy to dismiss the priviledge a college education gives you. I live in a state where over 25% of students drop out of high school. There is a yawning cultural, educational, and economic chasm between me - a college-educated computer geek - and a reservation kid who never made it past ninth grade.

People who say they've never met anyone who didn't expect to go to college live insulated lives of unfathomable wealth compared to the truly poverty-stricken. You don't know any uneducated people because the bubble of your world does not overlap theirs.

I have to ask a serious question. Are the folks here worried about their 'class', the craziest idea right out of DasKapital, or their aspirations? I would rather be a poor person with aspirations to be better than that than somebody worried about their 'class' in society.

If you are worried about your class, please go next door. I have not time for such foolishness from you. {In a kind manner}

In the words of the great Chapelle, "I'm rich, beyatch!"

Client Support Administrator for the US Air Force:

Occupation Top Fifth
Education: Middle
Income: Bottom Fifth
Wealth: Lower Middle

The "occupation" measure is pretty damned subjective if you ask me. And wrong. Paralegal is almost top fifth in prestige? I'm not picking on paralegals - hell, I was one but maybe I was lousy because I sure as hell didn't feel like king of the world - but a lot of those are out of whack. If you assume that job prestige can be measured so specifically, that is, which I kinda don't.

@mac-phisto: So does everybody who reads Marx. It's a bit more unclear these days, but amen to the sentiment.

I don't even wanna know. It's too depressing.

I don't see how a job that "sounds good" is worth anything. Then again, I guess that's why people make up the most absurd names for their meaningless jobs. Stuff like, "technical coordinator of retail sales and performance". In other words, that person is a sales manager at some retail store. (Not a bad thing, but for the sake of humility, call it what it is)