What happened to free speech?

Advice: In this day and age, don't post anything anywhere that can be traced back to you that the owner/CEO of the company you work for wouldn't laugh at too.

Seriously, this is going to be a costly learning experience, but that's the way it is.

As a general rule, customers don't take kindly to being called stupid. Even the stupid customers.

@gwong: "Free speech" is a misnomer. Go read the Bill of Rights and see what "free speech" actually is. The first amendment does not protect you from the consequences of saying something stupid.

For instance, if you constantly insult someone, don't expect them to be your friend just because you explain to them that saying mean things about them is just you exercising your right to "free speech".

Here's a good example of why the Behind the Counter blogger (bbcamerican.blogspot.com) conceals her true identity.

Free speech?! You act like there is some important document that guarantees that right to American citizens...Such ignorance! :-p

@gwong: The first amendment protects you from the government, not private enterprises, nor from the ramifications of your speech. This is borderline inappropriate firing, IMO and IANAL. I'd seek legal advice to at least get the Unemployment benefits, but wouldn't want to try to get my job back given the touchiness of the managers at that store.

Wal-Mart is it's own entity, beyond that of the United States govenrment.

On a more personal note, when I was fired from Wal-Mart, the whole thing was a big mess that made no sense, and ended up with me being rehired, then me quitting out of disgust.

@acambras: I believe it's a guy, actually.

Wal-Mart: We've got tools, both in the automotive department and executive management.

The other problem: Wal*Mart is like IBM in the legal department, they WILL NOT SETTLE.

They will fight for every inch in court, even if it costs them 10x the money over what it would have cost to settle the claim, because they want every lawyer or potential litigant to think twice before suing, knowing that Wal*Mart's "No compromise" policy can easily mean it costs the other side a huge amount of time and effort as well to win a fully legitimate suit, so unless its a $10M class action, don't bother.

"Knock it off, I'm a french fry!"

@acambras: It's definately a guy. Read the first few posts, and it's clear that it's a gay man, likely late 20-something. BBCamerican's REAL protection at this point is that he's widely known and read. It wouldn't be too hard for them to figure out which Wal-mart in the small area that was hit hard by hurricane Charlie has a gay man working part time exclusively at the service desk, after all.

@AlteredBeast:
Same here. I got into a huge argument with my manager (I was in the Photo Center) that turned into a huge argument with the District Manager, all because I had a sweatshirt in the photo lab. The district manager told me that she would have fired me for insubordination when I tried to explain the situation to her. That infuriated me, and I shouted, "Fine, you want to fire me? I quit!" and stormed off. About an hour later, I sheepishly went back to her and told her that I didn't really want to quit; the next day, I gave myself the day off as a "decision day", and when I returned the following day, I gave my two weeks' notice. One of the best decisions I ever made.

I doubt the firing was really over those remarks. Considering how hard it is to fire unproductive people over something like that. Say someone's lazy, you'll have to have several documented performance reviews and written evidence you've made 'effort' in correcting the behavior. It's far easier to fire over a little silly evidence since the hard evidence is there, than to wait a year or so for the performance reviews to come in.

If I were a Walmart manager, I wouldn't fire because of a remark itself. If the guy is a productive worker, it's best to keep him aboard then to find a replacement and go through rehiring someone else and retraining them. Of course denying unemployment benefits is pretty harsh though.

@Toof_75_75:

Wal-Mart isn't the government.

I'm sorry, but to work at Walmart and then say that "if you bombed all the Walmarts..." shows a complete lack of common sense. I know, it's a joke. But it's not funny and does bring into question the character of the employee.

Could Walmart have handled this with a little more common sense? Absolutely. Most companies would have told you to take it down and then followed-up with any number of options like writing some sort of reprimand and putting it into your employment file, possibly filed a police report, gave you a few days off without pay and then try to move along. But this is a long, tedious process for which Walmart probably hasn't the stomach to accomplish. It's an even more unappealing process considering that they can get rid of the employee and not have to do any of it and have someone else hired by noon.

David showed contempt not only for the company, but for its customers who, admittedly, are exactly the demographic he outlined in his joke. Yes, without question, I believe that every element in the joke is true. But it doesn't belong on a the Myspace page of a Walmart employee regardless of how stupid the company and its core customers are.

It's a tough lesson, but take heart in that you learned it before working for a company like General Motors or GE where you're out the big bucks.

By the way, just delete your Myspace account now. It's an utter waste of time and has absolutely no possible benefits to adults whatsoever.

@AlteredBeast:
I had a similar thing happen at Hertz...
Got fired because I bitched out a manager after 8 hours and not a single break, reminded him his job was also on the line for ignoring employees and denying us breaks, he said i was un-fired about 5 minutes later, and then I got called in to actually be fired by the location's HR guy about a week later.

@nweaver: So we should just roll over and let huge corporations abuse us? I don't THINK so. That's a cowardly attitude (I'm not calling you a coward, just the attitude).

The magic word is "contingency".

@bambino:
@dbeahn:

Oh, I guess I always assumed the blogger was female because the posts made so much sense. ;-)

I'm going to amend my last sentence to be "...usually no benefits to most adults whatsoever". I'm sure there's some benefit to some people. I'm also sure someone is going to let me know what those are in this very thread.

@Toof_75_75: this is actually funny, cause there isn't and the first amendment doesnt. It guarantees that the government wont pass a law restricting your right to free speech, but it says nothing about companies being allowed to fire you for speech they don't like.

You can say anything you want and the government cant make a law banning what you say... but your boss is fully and legally allowed to fire your ass for doing it. This is why you should never post things you dont want haunting you on the internet. It WILL come back to bite you on the ass.

The word "bomb" is so politically charged that it's impossible for logical action to be taken after someone has used it.

So you've got two choices: 1) Stand up for your right to use the word "bomb" without being discriminated against, and face the consequences or 2) avoid using the word and give in to "the man".

I hate Wal-Mart as much as the next guy: their business practices and the way they treat they employees are appalling.

Having said that, if you work for company X it is not a great idea to publish a statement that says bombing the premises of company X would be beneficial.

Forget free speech, use some common sense.

Boy he just shot himself in the foot. He works at Wal Mart, but yet he believes that if they were all bombed, then the I.Q. Score would double. Did this guy just call himself a retard? I posted an article up here about Wal Mart a while ago, but i dont work there. Lesson to be learned: DONT BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU!

Are we supposed to feel bad for somoene who gets fired for this? If you had an employee who said that about your company, and you could easily replace that person, wouldn't you want someone else too? It's called employment at will. It doesn't take a genius to know there's some risk in talking shit about your employer (or really, your coworkers in this case). Fired for a bomb threat? Maybe not. Fired for being a dumbass? More likely.

The irony thing is that the I.Q. scale is curved--it is set so that 100 IS the average score. So the "average" I.Q. score is always the same, 100, by definition.

@not_seth_brundle: And my own score just took a hit for "the irony thing"...

I heard this story on the radio this morning, and I was with you until I saw that you made fun of pro wrestling.

Not. Cool.

Seriously though, the whole situation is sickening and I hope it gets resolved in your favor.

@gwong:

free what now? What is the archaic old-timey phraseology you are using? Go back to th year 1776 you powdered wig dandy, we don't want your 'Free Speech'!

He publicly insulted Wal-Mart customers in the form of a violent fantasy. Why he thinks they would possibly continue to employ him is beyond me. Yeah, it was a "joke". Forget the question of whether it was in poor taste (and it was), the indisputable fact is that you publicly mocked your employer's patrons. I wouldn't continue to be employed if I did that. Thinking that he could be doesn't really speak to David's IQ. I mean, is Consumerist really coming out in favor of employees being protected for violent fantasizing about their customers deaths? Its silly that David got himself fired, but the fault is all his own.

Seriously though, this situation just exposes the lack of logical human thinking on behalf of the company. Companies like that seem to make decisions that look good on paper, no matter how much they have to contort the truth to make it so.

Think about it this way, If your manager REALLY thought that your comment meant that you wanted to bomb walmart, then wouldn't he think that firing you would give you a reason to bomb them? It's common sense which has been completely circumvented in this situation in favor of either blind computer logic, or, more disturbingly, a system that operates based upon negative feedback of the machine: You say something bad about Walmart on your own time or ours, you loose your job.

I'm just glad I never posted some of the things that I said and thought when i was a waiter at Friendly's. Given the response to this harmless joke, i think i would have had homeland security on me...

@Falconfire:

I was just joking about the initial comment of free speech...I hate Walmart as much as the next guy, but I'm rather indifferent about this guy being fired over what he said...

I do think it can be said that whoever brought that into work to incriminate him was a real bastard, though!

It shouldn't come as a surprise that if you as an employee of company X post on the Internet that company X's customers are stupid and bombing them would be a good thing you will get fired.

I don't think he should be denied unemployment benefits but getting his job back is highly unlikely.

David you are just dumb

@Toof_75_75: My guess would be that who ever brought it into work was someone that he'd pissed off.

It's been said, but free speech just means that you can say whatever you want, but it also means that your free speech ends where someone else's liberty begins. In this case, it was Walmart's liberty to fire you for saying something stupid in a public venue.

So any advice for David? Sure ... don't say that phrase "drop a bomb on" if you value your employment or even your freedom. He's LUCKY he only lost his job.

myspace is the single worst thing to ever happen to the internet.

that is all.

Wal-Mart is a funny beastie. Did you know that Wal-Mart management is obligated to immediately fire anyone who uses vulgarity on the sales floor. Especially if it's in front of customers. Why, all a person would have to do is report that so-and-so said a "bad word in front of my kids" and ask for the address of a general and a district manager to write. One complaint, two copies of a letter, and two 41 cent stamps could get somebody fired, true or not. The customer is always right.

David, you're fired. You're not going to get unemployment. If you think Wal-Mart's system is unfair, you can't fix it. I say "if you can't beat them, join them."

Other than that, the best thing you can do, short of perjury in an unemployment hearing, is just suck it up and get a new job.

Sounds like someone had an ax to grind with this guy. But I also agree with whomever said they wouldn't have fired him if he was THAT spectacular of an employee. It sounds like this might've been the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak.

David better do himself a favor, find another job, and learned to keep his trap shut when making derogatory remarks about his employer. At least when they're in print somewhere...

@lincolnparadox:

Why is that funny? This is "At-Will" employment we're talking about, if you break a rule of your employer, you are suffer the consequences.

I am so glad some Consumerist readers are actually aware of what the First Amendment of the US Constitution actually means. Kudos to you.

Actually, no, that is not all. Why does he even want his job back? If he hates the customers so much, shouldn't he be glad it's over? Shouldn't he have quit ages ago?

When I was 16 years old, I worked at a grocery store down the street from my house. I hated my boss, and wanted to quit. My mom told me, "You can't just quit a job because you hate your boss." I quit anyway. I started working at the pizzeria further down the street.

In the 12 years which have passed since then, I still fail to understand what my mother meant. If you hate your job, quit. Period.

@jeffj-nj:

Followed up closely by Facebook!

"Your conduct was not in the best interest of your employer."

So your conduct on your own time always has to be in the best interest of your employer?

And the government backs that up?

@jeffj-nj:

I hated my job when I was in the military. :(

@Buran: Part of the problem is with a contingency case, the lawyer will do the math himself, and come up with an answer of "Even if I win, it will probably cost me more than the win", combined with this would be a hard case to win.

There is a reason for a "We will fight on the beaches..." litigation strategy. Companies who DON'T follow such a strategy end up losing in the long run.

It's not really that funny of a joke either.

do you have a copy of the exit interview? do you have a copy of the employee handbook? the key here is determining whether or not your firing actually fits into the "Gross Misconduct - Integrity Issue" section that they fired you for. if you can prove that it doesn't, then you've got a good shot at unemployment.

unfortunately, this should have been included in your request for a redetermination, so you may be beyond any help getting unemployment.

the funny thing about "employment at will" is that it is perfectly acceptable to fire someone for no reason whatsoever. when you give someone a reason for why they were fired, you better be damn sure your reason fits into the company's definition or you can expose the company to all sorts of legal liabilities.

& as always, if you ain't payin' me, i am not your lawyer, so go solicit some real advice.

Just another example of internet Darwinism. It's hard to feel bad for this guy. I was watching a segment on 20/20 on how employers are looking up potential employees on myspace and discarding them based on what they see. Another shining example of myspace Darwinism is a kid in upper Michigan, I read, posted pictures of his exotic plant/weed experiment on myspace and ended up getting hauled to jail. One word: duh.

@TechnoDestructo: Well, okay, so that's different. But, seriously, you gotta admit; that really, truly is different. ;)

Interesting fact: David's IQ just doubled because he no longer works at Walmart. It's a blessing in disguise!