Now the 6 arrested passengers are suing their accusers. Boy, there was sure a whole lot of nasty racism going on that day. It’s hard to figure out who should sue who, isn’t it? Psst, the airline probably has more money. —MEGHANN MARCO
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Of course they’re not all terrorists, and we all know that.
@chimmike: Really? We ALL know that? Because grkgus plans on reporting anyone who starts praying and looks Muslim.
@chimmike: How do you know? Not all Imams wear Jalabya’s. Unless these particular Imam’s were wearing Jalabya’s for the flight, but not when they were on camera. According to The Today Show footage these men were wearing a tie, shirt, and a pair of slacks. There is not a uniform for Imams.
@Mr. Gunn:
what exactly does that have to do with Fox News?
Red Herring much?
@Mr. Gunn: Minneapolis takeoff? I dunno, doubtful…
@crayonshinobi: Because war is peace, freedom is slavery, and love is hate, remember. Don’t people read anymore?
@akyiba:
from the original stories months ago, IIRC they WERE Wearing the traditional clothing.
chimmike: If you have to ask, I can’t explain it to you. It’s about breeding fear and hate to keep the people worried about an external threat, so they don’t start messing about with things at home.
@Mr. Gunn:
all the “breeding of fear and hate” has been provoked by actions. People are smart enough to understand what threats are and are not, the fear is justified, and the hate, well….I don’t see it except when hate crimes are committed. This was not a hate crime.
If you’re foolish enough to think the gov’t has been breeding fear and hate, you’re foolish enough to think that people like Al Sharpton make a difference.
I distinctly remember anshow on A&E about airline travel. On this one episode, they yanked a white male off a flight because passengers claimed he was telling everyone his was a NYPD office and was wearing a NYPD shirt. Was that racist?
If you don’t want to be hassled, then don’t act crazy. It is as simple as that. These 6 men, from passenger accounts, seemed to have acted deliberately in a manner that should arouse suspicion in any other situation. To me they seem like agitators who just wanted to cause a situation so they could “expose” the racism in America.
interesting reading for all: http://www.aina.org/news/20070510135606.htm
chimmike: It has been said, repeatedly in this thread alone, that it’s OK to report muslims for praying. No assumption necessary. You don’t do that unless you’re scared of muslims, and if you’re scared of something you can’t do anything about, you generally hate it.
Remember what Yoda said?
I fail to see where it only says “its okay to report muslims for praying”.
Praying is fine. I see people (islams too) doing it all the time. The praying was in addition to the other suspsicious actions they performed.
I don’t see this as racist, nor do I see how the passengers are in any way liable for this as they were not in the decision making position that chose to remove the Imams from the aircraft.
Regardless of what I say, you’ll never agree that this was a publicity/attention/fear stunt.
@chimmike: Okay, well shut my mouth wide open ;0)!!! Guess I have be careful what I wear because I have a wedding in 3 weeks and I’ll be darned if I miss it because of what I wearing. I usually don’t have problems anyway when I travel, probably because I’m woman (hear me roar).
Triteon: It’s been a while since the commenter axe has fallen.
@Mr. Gunn: Ok, you’ve claimed politicians are morons. Congratulations.
Now please present us with the same thing for democrats and it might lend some credence to whatever claim you are making…
Anyway, what good does mudslinging the republicans do for you Gunn? Let me guess, your next step is to blame the ruin of the world on Bush and his administration? And again it’s Bush’s fault and the evil right wing Fox news network that caused the racism that got these muslims kicked off the plane, huh?
Seems to me that if you are so angry at republicans for what they are “doing” or “believing” you should be even angrier at your party for being so impotent to stop it.
And as for Fox news being rightwing…Please! They are left of center in my opinion. Then again, anyone who gets their info from the talking heads are going to be misinformed one way or another.
I don’t think that “@” thing works across multiple pages.
@Mr. Gunn: @crayonshinobi: Because war is peace, freedom is slavery, and love is hate, remember. Don’t people read anymore?
Forgive me, but I don’t understand what this is in response to. Thanks for the quote of 1984, but I own a copy, so no need.
Wouldn’t the irony be rich if the passengers who turned in the Muslims were Democrats?
guroth: And a girl who wears too revealing of clothing in the wrong part of town is at fault if something happens, because she should know better, right?
crayonshinobi: I’m working on the Democratic analysis right now. This isn’t axe-grinding, but rather to address exactly the concern you mentioned, that people who get their news from the talking heads are gonna be misinformed. What I did was to look around and see if anyone had tallied up the responses across the board, and all I found were news articles selectively quoting little bits. So I went to the primary source, the transcript, and I did my own analysis. The only way to know anything is to read and think about the primary sources, rather than someone else’s comments thereupon.
I picked the republican debate first, because I thought it would be the most fun to make fun of. I’m really not partisan; I hate stupidity in any form. I am pissed off at the Democrats because they’re the only party that has a chance against those candidates, and they can’t field anyone except the wife of the last president and a black man. They’re not gonna get votes from non-coastal states that way.
The comment nesting thing doesn’t work across pages, but if you click the link, it should take you to the comment I’m talking about, still.
chimmike: You’re right that the passengers didn’t make the decision to pull the people off. Maybe it is just an attention getting stunt, but maybe attention needs to be drawn to this, so that the next time people see brown-skinned people in a plane speaking in a foreign language and praying, it won’t be so scary.
The problem is that once you get scared, every little thing starts to seem suspicious.
It’s muslim’s, not islams, btw.
That is correct. People may have been less suspisious. If you wore a shirt that said….Fuck the Jews, or Nigg***, than hey it’s JUST a shirt right? LOL do you see the point? What you wear WILL create an impression. Just like you don’t wear a t-shirt and shorts to most interviews…weather it’s right or wrong, we all make judgements and what you wear does not always mean that is what you are, but people will still make judgements. You just have to face up to it and accept that what you say, do, or wear will have a consequence.@akyiba:
When did muslim become a race?
kozicki4: The comments go after the link, like so.
Okay, naive, racist, accusation-cakes, blah, blah, blah…
No one has offered a really good explanation as to what legal grounds there are for this case. I don’t get how passengers can be sued. They didn’t start a scene from what I interpret. All they did was hand an attendant a note saying that they wanted a situation they deemed suspicious checked out.
I guess what really makes me uneasy is that I cannot believe that these passengers acted maliciously. I think that they were legitimately concerned about their safety and felt they had the right to make their concerns known to the airline.
This is obviously a publicity stunt by CAIR. You will notice that they cry racism, but christians arent a race either. You can say that all muslims are not terrorists, but statistically speaking most terrorists are muslim.
@badgeman46: I think it’s more fair to say that MOST Muslims aren’t terrorists.
How can you sue for that? I once reported a guy to airport security. He was filming activity on the tarmac outside the airport windows (where they park the planes. He kept looking around to see if someone was watching, and briefly covered his camcorder when someone walked by.
Still think I’m racist?
He was white (and not dressed as a Muslim).
…you ever get the feeling that freekers or freepers or whatever that bonehead site is started whining about Consumerist? Because it sure feels like the wingnuts have arrived.
Hey, Ben, it’s great to have differing opinions here. Really. But perhaps consider steps to make it more difficult for drive-by commentators to join? The most innane comments seem to be coming from the new guys w/ no profile. Your call, but I genuinely feel that they’re here to flood the site, destroying the comment boards with their non-reality-based diatribes. Not sure if it’s where you want Consumerist to go…
To the wingnuts that are joining to comment in good faith, welcome. Try to keep an open mind, you might learn something. As might we. Let’s try to keep things fairly logical, civil and *try* to cite facts that are, well, you know, facts. Deal?
@trai_dep: I’ve disagreed with many of your posts in the past, but not this one. Spot on!
I find it appalling that the passengers are being sued for reporting suspicious behavior. It’s absurd to suggest that merely informing someone of your concerns (as opposed to, say, publishing false reports or filing a false police report) is defamation.
I belong to a federally-funded Town Watch. I patrol my neighborhood and I report suspicious behavior to the police. That’s what good citizens DO. Is it possible for me to be wrong? Of course, but it’s the job of the police to investigate my claim and decide whether my concerns hold water. To insist that it’s somehow “hatred” or “racism” to report what one considers to be suspicious behavior to authorities is condescending and insulting. The passengers did nothing wrong.
I also love the commenters on here suggesting that the lawsuit is a good thing because we have to teach people not to “hate” or be “racist.” Wow, I had no idea that people no longer had the right to believe anything they want to.
As a Muslim and a Pakistani, I have to fear not only what other travelers may be think about me but also the same fears that they have…
So what do I do? I listen to my mp3 player and hope that the travel stays smooth without any troubles.
I have traveled several times and I have never been pulled out like this but I always dread the thought of going through that process. I happily let the security go through their process as I have nothing to hide. Its the hassle I dont want to go through. Several hours of questioning, hoping that I would be able to get on the next flight, etc.
I think they should have a process where people should be screened before they board. Even if it takes longer but at least it would keep other people in peace.
I dont pray loudly as other Muslim may and if I have to then I would do it before going to airport or after leaving the destination. These people should have done that but I guess they were more ‘religious’ than me.
What are Muslims to do? We cant change the way we look or change our traditions. Do know that most Muslims have the same fears as the rest of the world has.
@chimmike:
I see your point. However, the current administration likes to wield pieces of legislation, such as the Patriot Act, like a club to bludgeon the “terrorists”. One only need to look at recent headlines to see that the government is not tolerating any acting up on an airplane.
@trai_dep: Amen.
The one thing I don’t get is how the passengers knew these men were saying “Saddam Hussein” and “America [Sucks]” when it’s obvious they said it in Arabic and I doubt these white people (Come on, you know they were soccer moms or rednecks) don’t even know the language and in Arabic, America is pronounced amreeka and Hussein is h-sain not WHO-Sane..(Why would they say it in English, I’m American, born and Raised but I speak to my parents or traveling mates in my other language on a plane.) There is no reason for them to speak in English.. It’s easier for them to understand each other in Arabic anyway..
This lawsuit is frivelous. You can’t sue someone for stating their opinion. The airline itself can be held liable for their own actions (acting on behalf of the passengers), but it’s completely legal to be a racist in the United States. Not that racism is right, but it falls under the category of free speech.
@trai_dep: You only need to impress one Gawker site to get commenting at all of them. Idolator hands commenting privileges out like candy.
Didn’t Tony do almost exactly the same thing on last week’s episode of The Sopranos?
Yikes, I feel like I’m at michellemalkin.com.
@wreckingcru:
Why is it racist when people report what they honestly believe to be a threat to their lives, but perfectly acceptable for you to portray all white people as ignorant hicks? Much of a double-standard?
trai_dep: I’m, like, 5th or 6thing this motion.
missbrooke06: I don’t think that the passengers acted maliciously, but rather out of fear and ignorance they did something that someone more knowledgeable about the world would only have done maliciously.
In other words, it just looks like malice, especially to the guys on the receiving end.
Sorry, not reading the entire comments here, but as roche has also commented, I thought in the previous article, they were reported to have been acting more suspicious rather than just being “spotted saying their normal evening prayers in the terminal”.
When did the story change to say that they weren’t acting suspicious?
BTW, the 6 “scholars” (and also, when did the news people establish that they were scholars?) should know that post-911, everyone is overly sensitive to suspicious activity, whether it really is or not. Most airports do have prayer rooms so they should have gone there had it been readily available. If not, then I would understand their situation.
However, IF the previous story about how they would get up and converse with each other, request for seat belt extensions they didn’t use, etc… holds true, it seems like they set this up for disaster themselves and now they’re complaining it’s unfair treatment. In that case, the airlines were right in removing them, the passenger was right for reporting them if they were acting in such a way that would make others uncomfortable and could potentially harm them as well.
It doesn’t matter that they’re muslim. Would you want a questionable white/asian/black/hispanic/islander/etc… person sitting next to you on a plane?
I think not.
Couple of thoughts:
“Bomb-sniffing dogs examined the men and their baggage.” Quoted from the article.
It clearly states they had luggage. Why do people still insist the opposite?
Is it possible that people misunderstood the imams’ words to be “Saddam Hussein” or diatribes against the US? There are people who mishear pop songs all the time, and the lyrics are in English!
Can’t believe some of these comments on here that individuals of Arabic descent should “go back to Afghanistan or wherever they’re from”. Are you normally this racist in the real world, or do you save it for when you’re anonymous in front of the computer?
Yes, the dogs checked the baggage. But when they speak about luggage, they generally mean Checked luggage. Not what they carry on.
One question to all those who think this was just racist. Would you feel the same way about this case, if the people removed from the plane were white?
I have read different sources on this, and I do not know if all the facts are correct. But from what I have read I see this.
They checked no baggage
They made obvious anti americans rantings
They had 1 way tickets
They moved around the cabin
They spread out all over the cabin
They got heavy metal belts and did not use them
It appears to me that they may of had a checklist of things to do in order to have this happen to then.
If you do not feel that is just cause for removing them, then WHAT IS?
@jendomme:
yes, this is true, but it seems that bringing any argument about the legality of the patriot act to the Supreme Court can help those who are victimized by it.
@Mr. Gunn: “Saying there’s a “pattern of behavior” that applies to everyone of a certain faith or race is the very definition of discrimination and racism.”
Actually, that is not the very definition of discrimination or racism. Racism is thinking that characteristics of a race make it superior, or that characteristics/lack of characteristics in other races make them inferior. Discrimination is the act of differentiating based on characteristics or differences. Stating that “a pattern of behavior” applies to everyone of a certain faith or race does not meet either of these definitions. They may meet the current misuse of the words, but for that, more’s the pity. Words actually mean things, and the misuse of words gets to be frustrating after a while.
Such a statement may be an example of prejudice or generalization, but it is not racist or discriminatory. The third word of the misuse triumvirate is bigotry, which this also is not. It may be a precursor to bigotry, but the statement is not, in and of itself, bigotry.
@chimmike: While the Constitution grants freedom of speech, it does not grant freedom from consequences. The freedom of speech clause is to prevent the government from stifling speech, not to prevent individuals from acting upon speech. If such action is illegal, then it is a violation, but not of freedom of speech, merely of whatever laws were violated in the commission.
Wow. The stupidity doth flow in this comment thread.
Three things:
1. Please, people, RTFA before posting a comment.
2. Not all Muslims are terrorists, so those of you that feel that they should ALL go back to whence they came need to STFU. Lets assume that 10% of all Muslims are fundamentalist. That means 90% are just like you and me and just care about working hard to provide for their families and making the world a better place for their kids. So, again, please STFU.
3. A majority of the terrorist acts that have occurred in the past few decades(-ish) have been perpetrated by Middle eastern men who also happened to be Muslim. There are a great many ME Muslim men that don’t like the US and are VERY vocal about it. A common M.O. for ME Muslim men is to hijack airplanes. I think it is simply prudent to be particularly cautious when the two variables are combined. Not recognizing that a threat exists in the name of political correctness and sensitivity to cultural differences is just asking for trouble.
So, to summarize: Those of you on the right side of the bus, show some tolerance. Those of you on the left of the bus, show some pragmatism.
Burn them as witches, I say!!
@chimmike: I disagree that “bringing any argument about the legality of the patriot act to the Supreme Court can help those who are victimized by it” (my emphasis).
Bringing a weak argument to a court will often strengthen the statutes and laws the “victims” are fighting against.
@PeevedGuy: Those of you on the right side of the bus, show some tolerance. Those of you on the left of the bus, show some pragmatism.
Would you know if this available on a t-shirt or bumper sticker? Excellent line!