Keith wants some help with his landlord making up bogus cleaning charges when he left his apartment.
I moved out of an apartment a couple months ago. My fiance and I cleaned it before leaving, to make sure they don’t try to charge us for nonsense. But well, that didn’t help.
I have attached a copy of the letter I received detailing the charges.
$25 for vacuuming the carpet?
$10 for sweeping a tiny bathroom?!And other “cleanup” charges. While I accept the gas bill, the others are just over doing it, in my opinion. Let’s just assume I didn’t clean up (which is not true. The whole apartment was cleaned)… is it not acceptable living wear and tear? Vacuuming a carpet, sweeping a floor, wiping down a sink? Is this not what they do when everyone leaves? I know the carpets were shampooed before I moved in, and the walls were painted. Is this not standard procedure?!
I know the charges aren’t high, but is just the principle of the matter.
By the way, the ‘trash removal’ was 2-3 flattened moving boxes I forgot to take out.
What is the best way to try to get my money back for these charges? I need some help!
Thanks,
Keith
Dear Keith,
You’re probably screwed.
It’s very common for landlords to invent cleaning charges. Depending on Virginia’s laws, you might have recourse by taking him to small claims court, but you might have a rough go of it without photos showing you left the apartment clean, or other documentation. Also, the filing fees, not to mention the hassle, will probably outweigh any settlement you might hope to win.
Probably not what you want to hear, but all things considered, it might be best just to move on.
— BEN POPKEN
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I don’t know how things work in VA, but I doubt they could charge for wear and tear like that. My roommates and I did a pretty good job cleaning up (nearly took a whole damn day), but the carpet was, well, how light beige carpet looks after a year of use. I’d heard stories like the poster’s, and was even more worried because we lagged a week or two in getting the keys back, but we ended up getting our full deposit back. It wouldn’t surprise me that the property managers who pull the nickle and diming do it knowing that they aren’t supposed to, but are still banking on the fact that many people don’t even bother to read their lease or complain.
Some of the comments seem to point that VA is similar to CA as far as wear and tear goes, so at least ask “hey what’s up with these charges”? I probably wouldn’t bother with courts over a $100, but raising your voice can often do more than you think.
I don’t know how the rental market in VA is, but that tiny deposit seems like a sign of scummyness. My girlfriend’s former apartment (in the massive Parkmerced complex in SF…I wouldn’t be surprised if it were the largest rental property in the US…) charged them $100 for a deposit, and I remember distinctly feeling the scum. I think it’s the same as the nickle and dime charges: they know people are a lot less likely to go to court over $100 than $1000. It’s easy bucks, especially when they’re making a killing on your rent a super old, barely maintained building.
Housing seems to be one of those things were smaller scale is better. Not that I have much experience with renting, but I think there’s a sense of trust you get in knowing your landlord a little more personally; that is, you know they aren’t going to pull this kind of crap because they can’t afford to constantly turn people over, and, in return, you’re more willing to treat their property with respect.
Next time do a walkthrough of the apartment WITH THE LANDLORD and insist that he pay you back the deposit on the spot, and that if he does not, you’ll withhold the key. That’s what my mom did….and the nasty landlord from NY actually gave her the full amount back, on the spot.
Or you can bill them back.
Hey LAGirl – your comment would have been a lot less offensive if you’d said “>some
My immigrant parents rented out a house to suplement my dad’s min wage+tips waiter job (the economics of living in San Francisco were vastly different in the 1960′s) and we had tenants who left piles (like literally 4-5 LARGE trashbags) of cockroach infested junk in the middle of each room. One tenant moved out of state and left her 16 year old son living there while still sending rent checks (he and his buddies TRASHED the place – ripped out walls – spray painted graffiti on the floors) One woman who lost her job a few months after moving in asked if she could slide on her rent for a few weeks – my dad let it go for 3 months before she filed for bankruptcy (in the meanwhile, my folks bought food for her and gave her kids Christmas presents) After we saw her drive away from the bankruptcy proceeding in a brand new car (sticker still on the window) we did a little research and found that she’d bought a home just before filing.
So based on our experience I could say that all tenants are low life scumbags that don’t give a crap about places they don’t own, but I won’t because that would be an overgeneralization. Life cuts both ways – try and remember that.
(and PS to Christine, wherever you are: Karma will catch up with you you lying lowlife thief)
Reading through this has been really helpful. I’m still paying off the last place I was at because I DIDN’T do a walkthrough after. And they charged me for repainting, for carpet cleaning, mopping, and on and on and on. Basically every bit of cleaning a person could do- they charged me for.
My current landlord hadn’t been able to finish cleaning up the house before I moved in. He took a bit off of my deposit to make up for it.
I think, however, when I move again- I’m gonna take photos going in and then sit down with them and find out what exactly they charge for, cleaning-wise, when you leave.
I don’t know if refusing to return the key is such a good idea since that legally means you still retain the property, and thus would have to pay rent. So do that carefully.
Remember that small claims courts are built to handle disputes over a few hundred dollars. That’s what they’re there for. IANAL but here is my suggestion to anyone that is having a problem:
1. Photograph the apartment before you leave. Do a walkthrough with your manager AND A WITNESS. Make sure to photograph any actual damage…real or pretend.
2. Review the law in your state concerning deposit return, chargable damages, and timelines. Be sure that you know the rules.
3. If you do not get the deposit returned that you believe you are owed, send a letter via certified mail. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. Many states require that you ASK for the money before suing. Be sure to keep a copy AND keep the proof of mailing (and return reciept).
4. If the certified mailing does not do the trick, file a small claims case (or a case in the proper court with jurisdiction over landlord-tenant issues).
IMPORTANT: many times your filing fee and other court expenses are recoverable when you file your small claims case. Be sure to specify in your letter to the landlord that if you have to take your case to court, you will seek court costs; this will help you win them back.
Pictures, knowledge of the law, a good witness, and the threat of a lawsuit is probably all you’ll need to get your money. But people on here who say “oh, suing isn’t worth it” forget that if they actually win, they’ll get the filing fee, process fee, etc. back from the landlord.
Never let anyone walk over your rights. Rights not fought for aren’t rights at all.
The following advice applies to California (I’m not sure about Virginia and other states):
One great aspect of a “final walkthrough” taken a few days before move-out with the landlord or his/her agent is that any damages not mentioned to you cannot be charged on your final deposit return.
For example, let’s say that your carpet has stains, but the landlord doesn’t mention it? Well, you’ve had no opportunity to correct the problem to the landlord’s liking, so it cannot be charged. Even if you were responsible.
The exception to this rule is if (a) you messed something up between the walkthrough and the time you leave your keys there, or (b) you had a piece of furniture conveniently covering the damage or otherwise prevented the landlord from seeing it.
As others have said, and although it’s too late for the original poster – having witnesses and pictures at the final walkthrough is vital.
Ask them for photos. I worked as a leasing agent at a crappy apt complex for 7 months. They have to take photos of all “damages” and “uncleaned” areas to document the charges they are imposing. Also look into tenants rights in your state, because where I live, if they didn’t get you that itemized statement within 30 days of moving out they can not bill you for any cleaning expenses (I used this to get my full $400 deposit back after moving out of a complex I loved, though management was rather slow).
The boxes did you in.
It’s very likely you would have been in the clear with the sink needing some wipe down or some sweeping, but once they saw the boxes needed moving they committed to charging you.
I worked as a building manager at a University so I am familiar with the mindset.
Once you walk into that room and see boxes left, you have committed to charging them. And now making them use a more critical eye with the rest of the place.
Whether it’s a car, apartment, or home repair rental equipment, make sure there is absolutely nothing left to be done.
I know it seems unfair, but a 95% clean bathroom doesn’t help much if they have to come in and clean that 5% before the next tenant. And you can believe they will charge you.