Acura Dealer Refuses To Fix Torn Leather Seats Because Driver Wears "Wrong Kind of Pants"

Leather seats aren’t supposed to break apart on your two-year-old Acura TSX. So a conscientious owner with miles left on the warranty does what any sensible consumer would do: Take it to a dealership for warranty repair. Not so easy.

At Acura of Pleasanton, California, one owner was treated to a chastising, a handy lesson in how to enter a parked car, and some fashion tips. To wit:

He refused to fix a split in the stitching on the driver’s side because he claims:
1) I get into the car “wrong” (whatever that means)
2) I wear the wrong kind of pants. Yes, you read that right. The guy told me that blue jeans tend to scuff the leather, and that I might not have this problem if I wore slacks. Apparently getting into the car with Levis is not considered “normal use” under the terms of the warrantee.

The stonewashing must make the fabric grainy and hard. Huh? Last time we checked, Levi’s didn’t come with a razor-blade accoutrement.

And what kind of slacks? Worsted wool? Will they need to be Super 120s, or can I wear winter-weight? How about khakis?

The poster then teases us with the promise of videotaped evidence.

The good news is that I have this creep on videotape saying all of this! I also taped him demonstrating the “proper” method of getting into the car (twice) and his butt hit within a fraction of an inch of the spot on the seat that my “abnormal” ingress motion hits. Even though I had him on tape, he denied that he came anywhere near it. When I demonstrated how I get into the car, the jerk told me, “that’s not how you get in.”

Precious. We demand YouTube satisfaction.

In the meantime, the solution is simple. Drive naked. MARK ASHLEY

Avoid Acura Of Pleasanton’s (California) Service Department!! [Honda-Acura.net] (Thanks to readers Clinton, Jordan, and Michael!)
(Photo: Ian Muttoo)

Comments

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  1. basket548 says:

    Wow, that’s just…wow.

  2. lowllight says:

    not sure if this will help but i forwarded this link on to my brother who works for Honda of America. maybe he can send this to some of his co-workers in Acura.

    That is seriously not cool.

  3. Dr. Eirik says:

    What strikes me as odd here is that I thought that the dealers got reimbursed for repairs made under warranty. I’ve been told that by a Mazda service person and by a Dodge service department. Is Acura different?

  4. exkon says:

    I’m not sure what kind of warranty this falls under. Usually car warranties cover powertrain, transmissions, electronics, etc. First I’ve heard anything about interior.

  5. Dr. Eirik says:

    @exkon:
    Depends on the warranty. Many eons ago, I had a dealer replace the carpet out of my Mazda Protoge because it was cut a bit too short, so it started to peel back around the drivers side door. I had told them I’d have been happy with them just gluing it down, but they took the car for a day, pulled out the carpet and replaced it.

    That, though, was under a 10,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty on defects back in 1991.

  6. DoubleScorpion says:

    Go to the dealer’s Customer Relations Manager and show the video. If you don’t get a meeting with the GM to have it replaced, then call Acura.

  7. Brilluminati says:

    @exkon:

    I agree. I know that Acura has a basic 4-year/50,000-mile limited warranty, but I believe its limited to the powertrain.

    A split in the seat just seems like normal wear and tear on a 2 year old car.

  8. capnfive says:

    Yeah, when I got a new Volvo a few years ago the main warranty covered mechanical and electrical probrlems for 4 years /50k miles. Their “wear & tear” coverage for 1 year /12k miles. I think this is fairly standard coverage and am not surprised.

    I agree with those above who just consider this normal wear and tear.

  9. FREAKHEAD says:

    If the warranty was just limited to what has been stated above, why then the big ordeal about climbing into the seat wrong or wearing the wrong type of clothing? This gives me the impression they are trying to get out of something.

    They may just be jerks and trying to belittle the customer, which is unacceptable, but it would have been easier to just say, “I am terribly sorry but our warranty does not cover that”, then show the tiny print where it states that.

    Does the warranty state that you have to go back to THAT dealership or can you go to any dealership? If you can, perhaps try another location.

  10. raybury says:

    There’s a key difference between “it’s not covered under warranty” and “you wear the wrong pants.”

  11. sbell79 says:

    I hate to go against the grain here, but I think the dealership is in the right, at least a bit. The tear in the seat comes from the rivets in his jeans. It has happened to my car, my dining room tables, my chair at work and an antique chair at my parents house. Why should the warranty pay to fix his seat that was damaged because of his pants? It seems like normal wear and tear to me, which is not covered under warranty, correct? I think the dealership was a jerk about it but in the right, nonetheless.

  12. FishingCrue says:

    They don’t want do it because it’s likely a serious pain in the arse for them. Most dealerships aren’t equipped with upholstery shops (nor do they almost ever do interior work) so they’d have to farm the seat recovering to a local shop.

    Beyond that if you did get them to cover it, it is unlikely the repair will be satisfactory because the sun fades leather (if ever so slightly) and the shade of the recovered driver seat will be slightly different than the sun faded passenger seat. Make sure that there is no difference otherwise demand that they replace the passenger seat.

    As a car guy I can tell you there IS a right way to get into a sports car, otherwise you’ll destroy the leather, thigh supports, side bolsters, door sills etc. (The following technique was demonstrated by a Ferrari mechanic)

    First stand facing away from the car with the door open (if the vehicle is at 12 o’clock, you should be facing 9 o’clock)

    Next sit down so that your legs are still outside the car.

    Once seated, slide your legs into the car

    Note: the above method only applies to Gentleman, Ladies you’re on your own as to avoiding showing your knickers.

  13. Bay State Darren says:

    Question: is it under warranty if one just goes ahead and wears no pants whatsoever?

  14. Skeptic says:

    The dealer may be full of it but so is the poster.

    There definitely are kinds of pants that can scuff and rip leather. Many jeans have rivets on the back pockets which will scuff the leather. In the more extreme are “club” pants with D rings and extra zippers and grommets.

  15. SpyMaster says:

    OK, so there’s still time left on the warranty, and you don’t have many miles on the car…but how do we know you don’t sit in the car all night, parked in your driveway, listening to the radio or something…rocking back and forth…bouncing up and down??? Huh? How do we know you don’t do that??? Huh??? (Likely response from a car dealer.)

  16. Calarato says:

    For what it’s worth: My gym has a rule that you cannot work out in jeans… ever. I asked why. They said, because jeans make micro-tears in the seat vinyl, that become major tears over time. I assume these people know what they’re talking about.

  17. Grrrrrrr, now with two buns made of bacon. says:

    I wonder if it lists the proper type of pants you should be wearing in the owner’s manual? Maybe under “specifications.”

    I can see them saying “Sorry, it’s a wear and tear item” and yes, if you wore jeans with big spikes on them…maybe..but come on, last time I knew leather was pretty rugged. Nor have I ever seen a tutorial on “How to get into your car” in any service manual.

    Update: According to the latest blog entry, the poster states:

    UPDATE:

    I’ve just received a phone call from my buddy Bruce at Acura of Pleasanton and now he wants to work with me to resolve my concerns. I’ve been told that the district sales manager can authorize these repairs and I’ve got an appointment to meet with him in a couple of weeks. I’ll keep you all posted, but at this point I’m guessing that their going to fix the seat and CD player so that this will go away.

  18. zolielo says:

    @FishingCrue: You are on the ball fellow. There is definitely a proper way of entering a car to minimize seat failure. And this seemingly should not be part of the warranty.

    If they fix it great. However, if they do not what several car collectors I know and what I do myself is hit junk yards, websites, and forums to find the leather skins from the same year so that fade difference from the sun are marginalized. I do not recommend replacing the whole seat as it is sometimes the case that side air bags are contained in the seat and it is a trick to note if they are deployed and not replaced.

  19. deltasleep says:

    Dealers generally do not like warranty repairs because they get paid a flat rate for them. That means that Acura dictates that patching a seat is worth 1 hour of labor paid, and thats all you’ll get. If a customer brings it in, and for whatever reason it takes an hour an 15 minutes, you bill them for it. If you add that up for a year in a busy garage, its not hard to see why they dread warranty jobs. Auto manufacturers are notoriously stingy with what they’ll pay out, but who can blame them for trying to shaft a car dealer?

  20. squikysquiken says:

    @deltasleep: Indeed, I was lectured by a Nissan dealer about a broken cup holder (which was broken at delivery but unnoticed at the time) about how Nissan paid them for 1/4h labor and it took them 2h+ because they had to take out a seat and 1/2 the dashboard. He concluded: “If you break it again, we won’t fix it.” I was floored and that wasn’t the worst experience I had with them. I can’t believe I’ve suffered them for so long. I should have started reading consumerist.com earlier.

  21. mopar_man says:

    A split in the seat just seems like normal wear and tear on a 2 year old car.

    Really? Because my 20-year old Jeep didn’t have any splits in the leather. I owned it for well over 2 years and I only wear jeans. I’m sure several owners before me did as well. The fabric parts of the seat wore before the leather did.

  22. puka_pai says:

    My beloved 1985 BMW went to its grave last year with the leather seats intact. This, despite being parked under beating Texas sun (no covered parking at my apartment) and having drivers who mostly wore jeans — Levi’s, to be exact, with the rivets and all.

    I wonder if this service guy used to work at Best Buy? The OP better check all the stickers on his car.

  23. mantari says:

    ESCALATE
    ESCALATE
    ESCALATE

  24. nequam says:

    I have a better set of instructions than those offered by the ferrari mechanic:

    (1) stand astride the open door with your feet at about your shoulders’ width apart.

    (2) bend forward at the waste, beginning to torque your head forward.

    (3) as your ears become level with your knees, increase the angle of your bending and begin bowing your knees.

    (4) keep your arms straight alongside your body.

    (5) reach behind your back and pull your ass cheeks apart.

    (6) insert head and push.

  25. zolielo says:

    It really is how one enters and sits that makes all the difference. I think that I will ask for a demo on how to enter a car over on Jalopnik.

    “[…] WHAT IS NOT COVERED

    […] Parts other than genuine ACURA or AMERICAN HONDA authorized parts; wiper blades; battery; cables; belts; hoses; timing belt replacement when performed as routine maintenance: exhaust system, catalytic converter; brake system wear items such as drums/rotors, shoes/pads; clutch disc, pressure plate; throw out bearing, external shift linkages; glass, mirror glass, body parts; body structure, panels; bright metal; sheet metal; paint; bumpers; moldings; lenses; bulbs (except for dashboard bulbs); sealed beams; fuses; weather-strips (except for window run channels); outside ornamentation; wheel covers/ornaments; rims; studs; fastening/securing hardware; body seals; squeaks, rattles; buttons; carpet; dash pad; window handles; knobs; rearview mirror; trim; upholstery; electronic/audio accessories and cellular telephones other than AMERICAN HONDA AUTHORIZED ELECTRONIC/AUDIO ACCESSORIES; tires; seat belts; airbag(s), and the Safety Restraint System (except for the SRS control unit and cable reel.) If -YOU believe there is a defect in these parts, please contact YOUR DEALER immediately.”

  26. drzombie says:

    Most warranties haven’t been limited to just providing powertrain protection for years.
    Just looking at my 2007 Mazda’s warranty information, normal wear and tear is not covered, but I don’t think that a split in a two year old leather seat is normal wear and tear under any circumstances.
    Instead of escalating this higher, why not just try a different dealership first? Dealerships vary greatly in terms of the level of service they provide, and another one might be willing to fix this problem.
    As for dealerships not making much money on warrant repairs: that is absolutely not the consumer’s problem at all: if the warranty covers it, don’t tell me your problems, just do your job.

  27. SOhp101 says:

    I don’t know what types of cars you all buy but the last time I’ve heard leather seats last MUCH longer than 3 years even with heavy wear and tear. They put clauses like that in warranties to cover their asses but more likely than not if you talk to the right person it WILL get fixed.

    Yes the seat color might be different but non-matching leather is better than ripped leather. just ESCALATE your issue to someone higher up and it will get fixed.

  28. Heliochrome85 says:

    Having owned several Acuras, i can say with all certainty that this is a common problem with their cars. With the exception of the now dead NSX, Acura does not put in full leather seats in their cars. They have leather seat surfaces. In my two Acura Tls, the vinyl that went around the seat disintregrated over time. Personally, as a car guy, I take great care of my car because it is a major investment. At a time when dealers are begging for new sales, one would expect them to treat their customers with respect and dignity. It is unfortunate that Acura has a pandemic of bad service reps (including all Acura dealers I have dealt with.)

  29. deadpool says:

    So this guy rips the leather and thinks he’s entitled to have it fixed under warranty? If the paint gets scratched is he going to blame Acura for the paint not being adquately scratch-resistant?

    This is akin to buying a shirt from a store, washing it 20 times, and then trying to return it because it’s faded. The warranty says upholstery isn’t covered. Case closed. Stop whining about your overblown sense of entitlement and buy some seat covers.

  30. Xkeeper says:

    I don’t think he would’ve had nearly as much of a problem if the idiot just said “This isn’t covered under warranty” and not “You wear EVIL PANTS.”

    One obviously says the problem. The other seems an awful lot like avoiding it.

  31. SkipT says:

    As a resident of Pleasanton, CA I was surprised to see the the dealership was here. Always nice when you can get local warnings on the internet.

  32. ivieso says:

    I have Mercedes cl500. A couple of months ago, I pulled out the massage button on the seat because I thought it was loose. I broke it and I brought it in to the nearest Mercedes dealer. I said it was flimsy and should not have broken so easily, they replaced it within 1 day. They didnt replace the button, they replaced the whole freakin seat! I always come in before my scheduled maintenance, since it is free, they do it when I ask. No waiting for the service button to light up. I have nick pick about small little things here and there and guess what? They always fixed it made me happy. Everything gets done within one day, unless I order a hard to find part. They even shuttle me home and pick me up to get my car. They have treated me very well. I didnt even buy the car from them, I bought my car from another dealership and they still give me the 5 star treatment. They know if they treat me well, I am probably going to come back to use their service and I will eventually buy a car from them. They are right, I will. This is what customer service is. And NO, it is not that my car is expensive I get treated well. The dealer shuttled me home with a 21 year old with an older C220 and they treat him with the same respect and 5 star treatment.

    That Acura TSX is considered a luxury car. That is no luxury car service or any kind of customer service. Way to lose some business and have this spread all over the internet. This one is going to hurt them in the butt. Ouch!

  33. EtherealStrife says:

    CONSUMERISTS: RTFA. Seriously.

    The Consumerist should be concentrating on the other points of the thread, because the SPLIT STITCHING is the weakest of the poster’s complaints. Upholstery is not under warranty, so the dealership is right to refuse him. They even offered him some free advice on how to not do it in the future. +1 for the dealership imho. Split stitching results from a few too many bigmacs, or improper distribution of weight. I’ve seen people with leather seats practically leaping into their cars. . . . *rolls eyes*

    CD Player: Eh. It could just be a shoddy cd player that acuras come with. Either way, dealership should’ve just taken care of it.

    Oil: I’ve had some of the same crap thrown at me by the idiots at the local Power Toyota (Irvine, CA) dealership. I gave them a box of the synth mobil 1 I use, and they ended up using their non-synthetic and it was of the WRONG VISCOSITY. I mean, jfc I drive a corolla. I figured a Toyota dealership could handle an oil change. Apparently it’s not just Power Toyota that has oil issues.

  34. youngatheart says:

    Does this beat my expeience of having my car stolen during a weekend at a Chrysler dealers service dept years ago . They took no responsibility and it was treated as if it was stolen on the street.
    These kind of situations are why car dealers have the reputations they do.

  35. Carrnage says:

    My wife and I have recently been having a similar discussion. The rear window brake light has become dislodged (and has been for years). We were told a while ago by the Nissan dealership that it wasn’t covered by the extended warranty, but now we’re not so sure……

  36. Coronagold says:

    “I’ve got the wrong trousers! And they’ve gone all wrong!!”

  37. FishingCrue says:

    @youngatheart: They should have been responsible under a bailment relationship. They had actual possession if your car and it should be their liability insurance premium that goes up, not yours.

  38. This is what happens when a stupid person tries to pull a BS stunt on someone who isn’t stupid enough to believe them… hahaha.

  39. cryrevolution says:

    What we have here is someone that may not know the coverages of their warranty. And you can’t fault them for that. Some people just do not know. But the point is is that the Acura representative did not need to blame it on them, stating they were wearing the wrong kind of pants and such. He should’ve have just told them bluntly this is not covered under your warranty. The issue is not whether or not its covered or should be covered (we actually really don’t know the contents of this particular persons warranty), the issue is the Acura rep’s behavior.

    K

  40. Sudonum says:

    I don’t know, if I spent that kind of money on an Acura and the seat split I’d be pissed. I’d be even more pissed if the service writer gave me the song and dance that this guy got. Say what you will about american cars, but I’ve had GM stand behind my Corvette for things that other car manufactures apparently wouldn’t have. One of them being seat repair/replacement at 35 months. The other being paint issues at 5 years, long after the warranty expired.

  41. LatherRinseRepeat says:

    I agree with the others.. read the warranty before whining/demanding repairs.

  42. Syd says:


    I was told when I bought a leather wallet that I shouldn’t put it in the pocket of my denim jeans because of the damage that denim does to leather.

    I usually only wear denim jeans and my wallet, if anything, is smoother than it ever was. Not a single split or crack on its surface.

  43. calvinneal says:

    Honda and Acura warranties do cover wear and tear. I had 2 dash lights freeze and blow up when it was 10 degrees below zero this winter. My Honda Element had 35895 mile on it, 105 miles before the warranty expired. They spent three hours labor replacing the bulbs with no questions or excuses.I also had an entire rubber door seal replaced by the same service department even though I admitted to ripping it with my butt. This woman is not a whiner. She is just rightfully asking for the company to honor its warranty. Acura is Honda’s luxury brand. If anything, the service should be superior. Her problem is that dealerships despise doing other store’s warranty work. I live in Michigan where Honda is not exactly a brand favorite. Honda and my local dealer have always walked that extra mile to keep my business. She has just encountered an horrible dealership. I would have driven the 80 miles and returned the car to where I purchased it.

  44. Falconfire says:

    @deltasleep: Actually its not very widely known, but ALL certified mechanics are required by law to charge by a book which spells out EXACTLY how long a certain job for a certain car should take, and the cost of the job. And they are supposed to charge ONLY for that books value for hours + how much it cost them for parts. If they cant complete the job in the number of hours set by the book, then its the mechanics tough luck, and its completely their fault for their inability to do the job, which your not required to pay for.

  45. FishingCrue says:

    It is not widely known because it isn’t true.

    In Florida, and I presume other states, a shop has an obligation to notify the owner in writing of the estimated repair costs over $100. If the repair will exceed the estimate by $10 or 10% of the total cost of repair, whichever is less, the consumer has the option of terminating the repair and going elsewhere; owing the mechanic only for the “cost of teardown, the cost of parts and labor to replace items that were destroyed by teardown, and the cost to reassemble the component or the vehicle.” Fla. Stat. § 559.909(2).

    The mechanic CAN, and often will, charge more than the written estimate but must first obtain written authorization.


    *The above is not to be construed as legal advice.

  46. mon0zuki says:

    Wow, that’s disappointing for an Acura – my family has had amazing experience with them (kudos to Torrance Acura, I guess!) and constantly compare it with the BMW service we’ve been on the receiving end of (like calling customer service as how to remove the screw-in antennae, waiting for them to call all around the country until getting to Dallas, Texas, being told “just unscrew it,” having it break on us, then having to pay the three-digit repair bill – even though the car was still under warauntee and we were under BMW guidance).

    I realize that after the first sentence my comment was rather off-topic, but oh well. (:

  47. Sudonum says:

    @Falconfire: @FishingCrue:
    I worked on cars for 2 years in the 70’s while I was going to school. There is a manual that states how much time a particular job on a particular car SHOULD take. This is what is used when the shop gives you an estimate. For example I remember that the manual use to state that it should take 8 hours to rebuild a carburetor that was rather common on a lot of GM models. Everyone in the shop could do it way less than half that time. But guess how many hours the customer got charged for? We used to laugh because we could never figure out how the publishers of the manuals, highly respected automotive publishers, got those labor times. I can’t recall any instance of jobs that I did where the manual underestimated the time.

  48. Falconfire says:

    @FishingCrue: You killed your own statement. The fact that the there is a requirement for written notification for a job that goes over the quoted time, means that the mechanic couldn’t follow the manual allowed time properly (which is almost impossible since they quote tire rotation as a freaking 30 minute job) and likely screwed up big time. Unless said mechanic states that upon repair he found something else wrong and can show you what it was he found (meaning he can show you said part, or where on the car he located a problem and why he missed it at first) then most likely he’s playing you for a fool or in many states that require mechanics to follow the book exactly, breaking the law.

  49. Zuhaib says:

    I think a few poster above have hit it on the head, that with most new cars things like wear and tear items like the trim in your car is only covered for 1 year/10k miles or now 6k/5k miles as it is with my VW GTI i just bought.

    That being said, it depends on the car sometimes. I also have an 2006 MB S500, and with that car some wear and tear items the dealer will turn a blind eye and replace under warranty. But that could just be my dealer, and they dont want to make me upset as the freaking standard service for these cars are close to $300.

  50. dculberson says:

    A split in the seam on a 2-year-old car is not acceptable wear and tear. My car is 12 years old and has no splits in the seams. Now, little marks on the leather, yet, but those are pretty obviously not a manufacturing flaw. Maybe next they’ll claim you didn’t pay enough to have the interior last longer than two years?

  51. vaportrail says:

    Wow, I am shocked to read this post. In general terms, I despise car dealers and service departments. My 2005 TL was purchased at Pleasanton Acura, and I’ve had no less than exceptional service from them. Only two weeks ago my car went in for a standard oil change, I complained about a barely audible rarely-existent rattle in the headliner. They took it apart and fixed it. Any other dealer would have claimed ignorance or just told me it didn’t exist. I could not possibly get better service from this dealership.

    Acura is by far one of the only companies doing customer service right, It seems the original poster here is out of line.

    And no, I do not work there or have any interest in the dealership whatsoever.

  52. Brian E says:

    This sounds like a bad dealer to me. I looked through the warranty booklet which came with my ’06 TSX, and I did not see any exclusion for upholstery. This is not a cosmetic defect either.

    It sounds like the seam on the seat was sewed improperly, and it failed prematurely. Of course we just have the original poster’s word to go on here. If this is the case, there’s a series of steps outlined in the warranty booklet for how to go about getting warranty coverage if you feel the dealer has improperly denied your request. The poster should be following these steps.

    To answer many previous posters, most vehicles come with a limited bumper-to-bumper warranty and a longer powertrain warranty. As the name implies, the bumper-to-bumper warranty covers pretty much everything which isn’t defined to be a wear item (brakes, tires, headlights, etc.) or isn’t covered separately (battery, tires).

    Acura needs to improve its dealer experience if it wishes to be taken as seriously as Lexus. These kinds of complaints should be a hot button for Acura, so he may be able to get some satisfaction by following the procedure in his warranty booklet.

  53. christayah says:

    To say that a split in the seat is normal wear and tear within a 2 year period is ludacris. Car seat leather (not a leather jacket or a leather purse) but car seat leather! should not be worn out – let alone splitting! – after only 2 years of driving. And if it is, it should be replaced.

  54. zolielo says:

    I pulled that quote from the warranty book from a digital source. What I quoted is what Honda and Acura can go by.

  55. falconree says:

    We have a ’95 530i BMr, leather, No Tears.
    So, 2yrs and worn is not normal wear and tear.

    Good luck.

  56. RadioFlyerKid says:

    I love it when someone misspells the word ludicrous as “Ludacris”.

    It is perfectly acceptable to expand your vocabulary by listening to ghetto rap.

  57. SlickJTSX says:

    I am always amused by people that are always willing to read and endorse the unsubstantiated claims of those that can’t think of the proper way to exercise influence. This guy makes claims and says he has pictures and video….yet he won’t post them to prove his claim. You print it and others believe it without validation……………..I think it’s pretty lame that you allow this when the way I hear it is this guy ripped the seat below the seam and in fact the seam stitching is still intact. Furthermore his rant has been nothing more than an attempt to slander some really good people that personally know that work at that dealership. This guy ripped his seat BELOW the seam let me repeat, below the seam and claims that it should be a warranty repair and further claims it was on the seam.
    You know why there is no video?? You know why there isn’t even a still shot photo? It’s real simple…. it’s because if he shows it, then we will all know him for the fraud and the lies he is attempting to perpetrate.
    Let’s acknowledge that there are some slimy dealerships out there. We all know that…but let’s also acknowledge that there are some really good ones too, and Acura of Pleasanton is one of them. I know from the GREAT service I have gotten time and time again. Let’s shut this guy down and call him out for the fraud and liar he really is.

  58. Number-6 says:


    SlickJTSX must be working for the dealership. He says that “This guy ripped his seat BELOW the seam let me repeat, below the seam”. Since there is no picture, how would he know that unless he worked at the dealership and saw the seat, or knows the original poster, which doesn’t seem likely. Also, I don’t think that it matters whether the seat is ripped ON the seam, or BELOW the seam.

    I think the point is that the seat shouldn’t rip ANYWHERE after only 20,000 miles. The dealership should still fix it.