UPDATE: WeddingDepot calls this post libel and requests its removal.
Loren ordered a personalized ornament from WeddingDepot.com on December 16th. Instead, she received a “unity candle holder” on December 22nd. She emailed several times starting that day and didn’t receive her first response until December 28th.
What follows is an exponentially degrading exchange between Loren and customer service rep Shaun. Eventually Loren wears him down this:
- “I’ve tried to offer you a solution, yet you continue to debate it without end and thereby causing yourself further delay. Here ya go – this will work:
1. Throw unity candle stand in the trash.
2. We’ll issue a full refund.
3. We’ll cancel your account with us. Please shop elsewhere.”
It’s all for the best. Loren gets her money back and WeddingDepot loses a customer they’re unable to satisfy. Frankly, their stuff is pretty cheesy so Loren is better off taking her business to another store.
Full exchange, inside…
Loren wants WeddingDepot to pay for UPS to come by her house and pick up the package, and she wants her personalized ornament sent before she returns the faulty merchandise.
Shaun pretty much wants the opposite. He wants Loren to return the items before they will process the refund or ship the correct item.
By law, stores can set their own return and refund policies. However, Shaun does a poor job of adequately communicating these policies and doesn’t never addresses the emotional frustration Loren expresses. If had shown a little empathy, things might have gone over better and Loren wouldn’t have felt like she had to resort to filing a BBB complaint.
Loren writes:
- “I placed an order for a personalized ornament with WeddingDepot.com and unfortunately, received the wrong shipment. It has all gone downhill from there in one of the nastiest customer service battles I have ever been involved in.
I have included here all of my email communications with the company on this matter. I truly can’t believe the way this customer service representative has chosen to speak to me …
I’ve already contacted the Better Business Bureau but feel consumers must know about the way this company is choosing to conduct business.
You have my permission to post these emails, albeit without my contact information or email address.
Please feel free to contact me with any questions.
Thanks,
Loren
[ed: We think the apparent mixup in the timestamps is due to Loren and Shaun being in different time zones.]
—– Original Message —–
From: “WeddingDepot.com”
Date: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 12:35 pm
Subject: Order Update
To: Loren
WeddingDepot.com
** IMPORTANT ANSWERS: Some items – including albums -require special production times. Always check item descriptions first for production & shipping times. Some items only require 10- 14 days while others such as Art Leather albums require 6- 8 weeks. During this time, your order will simply remain in process without further email updates. DELIVERY TIMES: This is different than production times. Delivery times are the time the delivery service has your package. Orders ship from zip code 37064. Most orders ship US Mail. For questions about delivery times, check USPS.com. We cannot control delivery times. TRACKING NUMBERS are only available on FedEx order. Also, check the My Account section of the website for information about your order.
——————————————-
Order Number: 26316
Detailed Invoice:
Your order has been updated to the following status. New status: Hooray, order has shipped! 
For shipping or delivery times, please refer to the item description on our website, the Help menu on our website, and the My Account section also on our website.
—– Original Message —–
From: Loren
To: LorenWeddingDepot.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: Order Update
I am STILL waiting for a response on this.
You sent me the wrong item. I ordered a personalized ornament, that I paid for expedited shipping on, and received the wrong order instead. I am still expecting and waiting for the ornament I ordered and I would like shipping costs removed from my bill … as the item clearly didn’t get here in time for the holidays, as I had hoped.
Please respond on this. This is the 3rd email I have sent.
Thanks,
Loren
—– Original Message —–
From: Customer Service
Date: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 8:09 pm
Subject: Re: Order Update
To: Loren
Hello there,
Thank you for your follow-up. Which item did you receive?
Shaun
Customer Service
—– Original Message —–
From: Loren
To:Customer Service
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: Order Update
I replied earlier today and have still yet to hear back from you.
I was sent a unity candle holder. I ordered a personalized ornament.
When can I expect the ornament to show up and will the charges be deleted from my account?
Please reply asap. I am disappointed with the response time I have received from your company.
—– Original Message —–
From: Customer Service
Date: Thursday, December 28, 2006 4:28 pm
Subject: Re: Order Update
Hello there,
Thank you for your follow-up. Unfortunately, we cannot always instantly reply. Sometimes we have to investigate an order to discover what happened to create a mistake. As you seem to be very frustrated and disappointed – because you keep stating that in your emails – how about we have you return the mistaken shipment via US Priority Mail and we’ll refund your full amount including the return shipping. We’ll then discontinue our shopping relationship. When errors are made, we try out best to solve them, but unfortunately if someone keeps telling us of their frustration and disappointment, there isn’t much hope for a satisfactory result.
Shaun
Customer Service
—– Original Message —–
From: Loren
To:Customer Service
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 3:56 PM
Subject: Re: Order Update
My initial email was sent to you on Friday, December 22nd. Without a phone service to answer my call, I was left guessing if I would receive the item in time for Christmas. That is what got me so frustrated.
I would still like the ornament, as I paid for it, and it was a gift that I had bought for someone very special. It’s frustrating to buy that one special gift and be let down when it is guaranteed to arrive, you pay for it to arrive and then it doesn’t show up at your doorstep in time.
To end the disappointment, the best resolve would be for me to receive the item that I originally ordered. I will gladly send the other item back, but not until I receive the item that I ordered.
—– Original Message —–
From: Customer Service
Date: Thursday, December 28, 2006 5:17 pm
Subject: Re: Order Update
To: Loren
Hello there,
Thank you again for your reply. We indeed are sorry to have shipped the incorrect item. Because FedEx only designates the time FedEx has a package in their possession and does not alter order processing dates, orders with personalized items still require their normal time before shipping, so a personalized item placed on the 22nd would not have been guaranteed for delivery before Christmas. Most personalized items require several business days before shipping – although we tried to shorten that when we could for the holidays. Ornaments are usually in the 5-7 business day range for production.
Please use this information for returning the mistaken shipment and we’ll reimburse you for the US Priority Mail fee, and we can move forward with correcting the personalized ornament shipment.
Return form: http://www.weddingdepot.com/returns RA# 061227SL
Thank you!
Shaun
Customer Service
—– Original Message —–
From: Loren
To:Customer Service
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: Order Update
I didn’t place the order on the 22nd. I placed the order on the 16th and paid for expedited shipping. I received it on the 22nd and it was incorrect. That is when I originally emailed, at 3:00 and received my first response on this today.
As I mentioned, I will gladly ship the item I received back, but not until I receive the ornament that I ordered.
Thanks,
Loren
—– Original Message —–
From: Customer Service
Date: Thursday, December 28, 2006 5:35 pm
Subject: Re: Order Update
To: Loren
Hello there,
Thank you for the clarification. If you would like to keep the candle holder, you can purchase it. If you wish to return it for the ornament, we need it to be returned before the ornament can ship. This is nothing unusual. All your local retailers and major online companies require a return before another item can be shipped. Your local retailer does not offer you another item until you return the previous one. I don’t know why you would want to hold the candle holder as it’s not even a comparable item. It sounds like some sort of “ransom” idea or something… ha, ha. It costs us more for you to actually ship it back to us, so that theory wouldn’t quite work as it would be more cost effective and easier for us to just have you keep it and not to ship the ornament at all. We’re trying to correct the situation for you. You wanted good service and we’re trying to provide it to you. If you choose to complicate it, it only adds more frustration on your end. Trying to play a “I’m not shipping this until you ship that” game will only end in a very messy and frustrating situation that will probably include your not receiving the ornament.
We’re trying to provide the service you wanted and condemned us for not having. We’re trying to help.
Shaun
Customer Service
—– Original Message —–
From: Loren
To:Customer Service
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: Order Update
The form you provided me with is not a return shipping label … I’d have to actually go to the post office, PAY for shipping and hope that you’ll reimburse me …without knowing that is going to happen … or if I’m even going to receive the ornament that I originally ordered.
I don’t think it’s “standard” to say that I should pay for an item that I never ordered. Standard, would be sending UPS to pick up the item that you incorrectly sent, at your cost, not have me go to the post office, pay for the item and wait to be reimbursed. In fact, any time I have ever been shipped the wrong order, UPS has been sent to pick it up and the right item has been sent to me.
It’s not an issue of ransom … it’s an issue of why should I go out of my way for your company’s mistake?
I don’t understand the service I am receiving or the rudeness at all.
—– Original Message —–
From: Customer Service
Date: Thursday, December 28, 2006 5:49 pm
Subject: Re: Order Update
To: Loren
Hello there,
You are correct. It’s not a label – I did not say it was. Yes, you will have to deliver it to the post office – that is why I previously said we would reimburse you. This was a matter of a mistaken shipment. I am uncertain why you are inflating it to be a situation where you are a victim. That is something you are imagining. We want to correct the situation, but you are working against us in our efforts.
You may have worked with UPS in the past. We do not. We have provided our method of return and reimbursement. Again… we’re trying to correct the situation for you and we hoped that you would help do so because it’s you we’re trying to help.
Shaun
Customer Service
—– Original Message —–
From: Loren
To:Customer Service
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: Order Update
Surely, I hope name calling is not standard in your business operations. I never called myself a victim. I just want the ornament I ordered.
I will return the unity candle holder. In what form of payment do you plan on reimbursing me for the shipping? Will I receive a check? Will you put the credit on my credit card? Please let me know.
And when can I expect to receive the ornament that I ordered?
—– Original Message —–
From: Customer Service
Date: Thursday, December 28, 2006 6:41 pm
Subject: Re: Order Update
To: Loren
Wow – name-calling? Where did that come from? Victim is an ordinary term in vocabulary which described the perception I was getting from what you were telling me. You were insinuating the lack of morals of our company by questioning if you were even going to get reimbursed and repeatedly condemned our service level. That is something someone says when they think they are a victim (being ripped off) and that is what I interpreted your perspective to be from what you were telling from me.
I promise you we want to take care of this honest mistake but are having a bit of a bumpy road doing so. If we could not back- up my offer and were going to rip you off…. why would we have sent you anything in the first place? The reimbursement will come in the form of a credit back to your card.
Thank you!
Shaun
Customer Service
—– Original Message —–
From: Loren
To:Customer Service
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: Order Update
I do not consider myself a victim and don’t appreciate the use of the term … I am simply being a cautious consumer, and from the type of unprofessional communication that has been coming from your end, I think I have every right to be. I have never in my life been talked to by a customer service representative in the tone that you have chosen to take with me.
As I understand it, in the customer service business, it is your responsiblity to make sure the customer is satisfied and has received the items that they have ordered, in a timely manner and in the shipping time in which they requested and paid for. Instead, we have wasted an entire day emailing back and forth without a resolve to the problem at hand. So now I have to wait until you receive the unity candle holder before my ornament can be shipped when it should have been here by Friday, the 22nd? Seems to me that I’m the one that is now being inconvenienced even further for your company’s mistake … How is that customer service?
—– Original Message —–
From: Customer Service
Date: Thursday, December 28, 2006 10:26 pm
Subject: Re: Order Update
To: Loren
Hello there,
Wow… we’re definitely on different wave-lengths and I don’t possibly see how you interpret “victim” to be a negative term. I am uncertain what word you would use for someone claiming to be at the mercy of a company who they suspect and make claim to having done them wrong. The reason you’ve not ever had communication like this before is because most companies train employees to practice activities that are illogical in order to cater to the dreams of customers and that includes telling customers anything they want to hear as long as it makes them smile. It’s an act that companies do to hope that customers will think they’re great and come back. It usually goes beyond what’s reasonable and logical for the situation and pretty soon the company wastes more time and money trying to cater to a customer who is insulting them. That leads customers to have the mind-set that a company should do anything for the customer. After all… why wouldn’t it? The customer learns they can yell and insult the company and look… the company then does anything you ask. That’s ridiculous. Errors do not translate into carte blanche. There are still processes that must take place and procedures to be followed to make corrections to mistakes. Those same customers usually are quick to cast negativity toward companies and then claim the company is being rude to them when it responds to such allegations cast by the customer. They think it’s a one-way street and their purchase entitles them to say anything to the company. Companies are only people too, and half the gibberish that a frustrated customers email would never have left their lips if they had to say that in person… to a person.
Yes, I agree that today’s communications have been virtually wasted. Early in the day, I offered the solution we are ending on – yet you continued to debate it for the entire day. Not only that, but you continue to ignore the fact that you are incorrect that the item was to be delivered to you by the 22nd. You are creating your own “guaranteed by” time and blaming us for a production and shipping time you’re making up. In fact, you’re even making up the “guaranteed” part totally. We only state approximations for all our products, yet you’re taking it upon yourself to interpret it as “guarantee”. We cannot control your choice to convert our information into what you wish it to be.
This is definitely one of the most peculiar email exchanges I’ve had with a customer and it amazes me how your failure to understand the correct shipping time in combination with an honest mistake in our shipping department has caused you to question the morality of our company by questioning if we would refund your money. We look forward to receiving the product back so we can rapidly conclude this exchange.
Shaun
Customer Service
—– Original Message —–
From: Loren
To:Customer Service
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 6:48 AM
Subject: Re: Order Update
You say I am imagining that I’m a victim here? I am imagining reporting you to the Better Business Bureau. THAT’S what I’m imagining.
You state ” Not only that, but you continue to ignore the fact that you are incorrect that the item was to be delivered to you by the 22nd. You are creating your own “guaranteed by” time and blaming us for a production and shipping time you’re making up. In fact, you’re even making up the “guaranteed” part totally.”
Actually, no, I’m not making any of it up. I received an email on 12/19 saying “HOORAY! Your order has shipped!” The production time was clearly through with and the item was on its way. And I received the candle holder on the 22nd. SO…. If the RIGHT order was shipped, it would hold true that the ornament would have been here by the 22nd, no? I haven’t made anything up. “Thank you for your follow-up. which item did you receive?” … that was the first response I received from you after emailing you three times and stating that I was disappointed I had not received the ornament. A simple “We are sorry for the shipping error, we’ll get the ornament out to you as soon as possible” would have gone a LONG way solved this entire debate. Instead, you chose to argue with me about this.
I am not asking you to bend over backwards for me as the customer. I am asking for CUSTOMER SERVICE, none of which I have received.
—– Original Message —–
From: Customer Service
Date: Friday, December 29, 2006 10:25 am
Subject: Re: Order Update
To: Loren
Thank you for your reply. The reason you received the shipped notice was obviously because the wrong item had shipped because the regular production time for the ornament would not have been complete yet, so my comments about “guarantee” are exactly right. We did offer a solution early on. You chose to debate it, so we replied each time.
We’ll await the arrival of the return. We will handle the exchange when it arrives.
Shaun
Customer Service
—– Original Message —–
From: Loren
To:Customer Service
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: Order Update
Regardless, the ornament should have been shipped BY NOW.
I will send the unity candle holder back COD.
—– Original Message —–
From: Customer Service
Date: Friday, December 29, 2006 10:42 am
Subject: Re: Order Update
To: Loren
We reimburse for postage and not COD fees or additional services you select to add to the return.
Shaun
Customer Service
—– Original Message —–
From: Loren
To:Customer Service
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: Order Update
You have been reported to the Better Business Bureau.
—– Original Message —–
From: Customer Service
Date: Friday, December 29, 2006 11:29 am
Subject: Re: Order Update
To: Loren
No problem. We’ll be sure to include the BCB. We’ll enclose your on-going debate in our response. I’ve tried to offer you a solution, yet you continue to debate it without end and thereby causing yourself further delay. Here ya go – this will work:
1. Throw unity candle stand in the trash.
2. We’ll issue a full refund.
3. We’ll cancel your account with us. Please shop elsewhere.
That was easy. Have a good New Year’s!
Shaun
Customer Service
—– Original Message —–
From: Loren
To:Customer Service
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: Order Update
It’s not surprising that you’ve been reported before and have an unsatisfactory record with the Better Business Bureau.
I am still unsure of what solution you ever offered me other than for me to go to the post office, pay to return the unity candle holder, and then patiently wait to be reimbursed for that … as well as wait even longer for the ornament to arrive.
———- Forwarded message ———-
From: Customer Service
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:53:44 -0600
Subject: Re: Order Update
Please follow the below solution and discontinue communication with us.
Shaun
Customer Service
http://www.WeddingDepot.com”
— BEN POPKEN
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Kangarara :
I won’t disagree with ya there. Does sound like a classic snafu. Don’t forget that Shaun did offer to re-imburse Loren for the shipping.
Individual shipping is often more expensive than being associated with a corporate account. So it was still more loss for him than if he was able to do it through his account with FedEx, DHL, or whoever.
I re-state : I’m not saying either side acted like angels. But I don’t think both parties acted in animosity either.
Good GOD – this whole ordeal is just giving me a headache.
Shaun talks pretty tough for a guy that runs a website that sells such schlock.
He obviously didn’t think that Loren was worth having as a customer or he’d have gone the extra inch and issued a calltag with a shipping carrier.
I’m not thinking that weddingdepot.com thrives on repeat customers. Unless you have some sort of issue, wedding tchotchkies aren’t the type of items you buy again and again.
I would recommend to Loren that she take this opportunity to start shopping at Tiffany for this crap.
“I’m not thinking that weddingdepot.com thrives on repeat customers”
No wedding companies do. That’s why they can get away with such awful customer service. David’s Bridal refused to sell me shoes (they were the only retail seller) because I didn’t buy my dress there. (AS IF I’m going to spend that kind of money on a poorly-made dress made of trashy fabric.) I called the manufacturer direct and they sold me two pairs at a steep discount from wholesale and apologized profusely for David’s behavior. But David’s doesn’t care.
I mean, they sell veils for $80 made with $1.50 of tulle, $1 of tiny fake flowers, $1 of cheapie crystals, and a GLUE GUN. A GLUE GUN, for God’s sake. What does David’s care if they lose my business over bad customer service when their markup is 1600%, there is an endless supply of brides, and very few repeat customers? What does any wedding business care?
You can cause major damage with an unproperly handled glue gun.
I loathe David’s Bridal. I had to go to try on a bridesmaid’s dress and it seems that somebody decided not to put mirrors in the fitting rooms. So one has to walk out of the fitting room to be oohed and aahed over, in all of one’s poufy lavender taffeta glory. This after getting no help finding the dress — apparently, since the bride has already selected the dresses and bridesmaids are obligated to buy them, the store has a captive audience.
When my sister planned her wedding, she talked to friends of hers that had gotten married in the past couple of years. They were very helpful in telling her which dress shops, caterers, bands, florists, etc. were good, and which to avoid. My sister ended up having a lovely wedding without any significant problems. I think word-of-mouth is the only way to do wedding shopping – reward the good companies and punish the crappy ones.
Itch:
Zappos.com pays for return shipping.
I’m siding w/ Shaun. Nowhere in this whole exchange does anyone mention
– seems like a small company (esp. if owner/techie = CS rep)
– right around Christmas (maybe Shaun was away for a few days?)
– Assuming the personalization never happened at all, there would still be a delay from creating that before Loren’s ornament shipped
– shipping times, as we learned from all the UPS / FedEx postings, are greatly delayed this time of year.
Loren was willing to pay for something to be shipped to her “without knowing it was going to happen” but won’t allow the company the same courtesy of reimbursing her (yes, courtesy) for the shipping back of the item.
I think it’s reasonable to pay for return shipping and be reimbursed for it if it’s the company’s mistake. Yes, it’d be nicer to get a pre-paid label but that doesn’t always happen w/ smaller companies.
I can see her frustration and feel for her, but I think her expectations for service around Christmas time were set WAY too high. Shaun was upfront about making a mistake and seemed willing to work to correct it, but Loren wanted the correction done precisely her way or not at all. When Shaun then said fine, not at all, she didn’t like that either.
Don’t you know Shaun is starting to feel like a “victim” as well, or a “hostage” or like suing Consumerist or something. But he should have thought of that before he completely decompensated in those emails. That was the hissiest of fits I’ve ever seen thrown on the side of the customer relations guy. And, plenty of retailers pay for the shipping back of merchandise, I had that happen with Polo who paid to ship it back and didn’t shed a tear over it or cuss me out either one.
Loren was willing to pay for something to be shipped to her “without knowing it was going to happen” but won’t allow the company the same courtesy of reimbursing her (yes, courtesy) for the shipping back of the item.
I can’t speak to Loren’s state of mind, but I’d probably do the same thing, for one reason: chargebacks. If I pay for something from a retailer, and it never ships, then I can file a chargeback and all will be well. But if I lay out money for shipping (let’s say $10 at a minimum, without knowing anything about distance, weight, size, etc.), and the merchant never refunds me, then I’m SOL. So I can very much see a reason to be firm about this particular issue.
If someone wants me …. make some shelves, I can do that. But if after I started and they decide they didn’t like the product, so be it. As a customer that’s thier right! But that doesn’t mean I can’t recoup my loss and sell it to someone else. Would you force me to make it as they demand?
But that’s not what happened! She didn’t order a unity candle, decide she didn’t like it, and then demand they eat the cost of shipping her something else instead. She ordered an ornament, got a candle instead, and was told they wanted to drop the whole thing when she complained about it.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on whether she was being pushy before they started arguing about the shipping.
First of all, I wouldn’t care about the shipping costs, I’d care more about the PITA it is to get to the post office. Have any of you who support Shaun ever gone to the post office? It’s a hellish ordeal.
So basically the business screwed up, took her money, didn’t apologize and for the pleasure of that told her to run on down to the post office and send the item back at her expense and they’ll reimburse her with the same efficiency they’ve handled the entire shitty affair.
Sorry, bad customer service, plain and simple. Nothing the customer requested seems even remotely over the top.
I agree that it’s not that unusual to have return shipping paid for. This December I received a shipment from Macy’s.com that was intended for another customer. I called, and they overnighted my original order and sent UPS to pick up the wrong one. They also credited the expedited shipping I’d originally paid for. I didn’t have to beg and plead, they understood that they’d made an error, I was in a lurch without the gifts I was counting on, and they did what it took.
Rectilinear Propagation>
I’ll agree its a crappy example, it was just an attempt off the top of my head. Just trying to think of a brick and mortar example.
So I’ll try to make it generic. You give me money for something, I provide the wrong thing. If, for whatever reason, I am unable to give you what you orginally asked for should I not just give you back your money and go seperate ways? And would it not be fair for you to return what I mistakenly gave you?
Now if you did what I asked and I never covered the shipping, you could be able to do a charge back on that. At the same time I’d expect you to go straight to the BBB, local tv, court, and who ever else to make sure you get the pound of flesh. (Happened to my wife in ordering flowers online for our wedding. Got a ‘refund’ from the CC company when the return shipping didn’t come through.) If a company doesnt try to do … “good faith efforts” in trying to fix a problem I’m all for nailing ‘em.
I’ll give you that pushy maybe wasn’t the best word. She was offered a plan of action that was refused and wanted something he couldn’t (for whatever reason) give. What word do you suggest? It’s not bait and switch b/c money is being returned.
As for an apology, you are right. It’s not explicately stated, which is why I said in my first long post Never underestamate the power of sorry. But Shaun acknowledges there is a problem and he is trying to find out more details. Before the c&d letter was sent, I don’t see why you wouldn’t think that the company was sorry there was a mistake. Now? Shrug He’s been backed into a corner and sees no reason not to strike back.
44 in a Row & testsicles: you’re totally right, of course, but I don’t think chargebacks were on Loren’s mind, and the PITA factor of the post office is important. My point is that it’s not Amazon or LLBean she’s dealing with — it’s some podunk outfit, and I don’t think expecting a prepaid label is reasonable.
Once Shaun realized she wasn’t going to be reasonable, he should have dropped the “ship it back to us first” demand, esp. since he even pointed out they’d lose money on that.
But it’s a lot easier for us to critique from here than it was for either Loren or Shaun, both of whom are people who probably (well, maybe – they should, at least) feel bad the situation rose (sank) to this level.
My point is that it’s not Amazon or LLBean she’s dealing with — it’s some podunk outfit
I think this is an important point, but it runs both ways. Here’s my gut reaction: we know now, after seeing behind the curtain of the operation (so to speak), that “Wedding Depot” is really just the one guy. But if I’m going to their website, my first impression is that it looks very legit. It’s professionally done, looks reputable, with a big selection and a fully-featured e-commerce setup, sales, shopping carts, user accounts, etc., etc. It’s not just some Yahoo! storefront that was thrown up, it’s a place that, based on looks alone, I’d feel comfortable spending my money. Now, we all know that that’s no way to decide where you’re going to do business… but we also all know that that’s exactly what a lot of people do.
Clearly this place is trying to give off the impression that they’re a professional operation, and I have a hard time letting them off the hook just because it’s the one guy. Especially because, in this day and age of Wal-Mart and Amazon and your huge, corporate, faceless enterprises, dealing with the little guy is supposed to be a virtue. Except the little guy sometimes forgets what his selling point is, and that’s service. A small site like this probably can’t compete with Amazon on cost, selection, speed, or any number of things, but it can have better (or, at least, high-quality) service.
At the end of the day, and again I’m only speaking for myself here, I might wind up satisfied with Wedding Depot’s “pay for shipping and we’ll reimburse you” plan if — and only if — there was a recognition on the part of the company that they screwed up, that they were inconveniencing me, and that they were sorry. Instead, the impression I get from this email exchange is that Wedding Depot feels inconvenienced by this customer, and that’s when, at least for me, the gloves come off. Mistakes are one thing, and I understand that they happen, but I absolutely can’t abide by a company that makes me feel like I’m bothering them for wanting what I ordered.
I want to agree with acambras… I just got married 9 months ago and I’m constantly asked about catering, dresses, flowers, etc. Weddings don’t thrive on repeat business but they thrive on referrals.
Thar’s gold in them thar bridal veils. I made mine–cathedral, ribbons, finished edges, with headpiece–for less than $10. Even at $50-100, about half of what I’ve seen at retail, you could have an excellent cottage industry doing this.
Are you sure Shaun isn’t really Steve who runs Amy’s Ice Cream?
Maybe the customer became unreasonable because she was angry, but as the owner of a small business, Shaun didn’t have the right to turn into an absolute dick and start taking customer service issues personally. I don’t think Shaun should have escalated the e-mail exchange, either. It comes off as very unprofessional.
One of the best customer service tactics (I think) is to ask the customer what you can do to make things right. Assuming they just want their money back or the right item shipped to them, I don’t see what’s so difficult about this. So maybe you eat shipping and apologize, but you’ll get the customer back.
I don’t blame Shaun for getting upset either, but he should have kept his personal feelings separate from his business.
Here’s customer service and a fantastic return policy:
I have face powder from Sephora that I can no longer use. I ordered four online. I called to ask about returning the two unopened ones, offhandly sighing that I also had two I’d opened…what a shame…but just being glad I could return at least two of them.
Well, the Sephora rep on the other end was paying attention, and told me I could return even the opened ones…without me knowing that or requesting it.
He sent me a return label for free shipping back to Sephora. It arrived in the mail a few days later, and I sent the stuff back out to them…free of charge! Wow.
I buy a lot of my makeup/fragrance/hair stuff there now, but you can bet I’ll buy all of it there (except stuff they don’t sell) in the future.
So I’ll try to make it generic. You give me money for something, I provide the wrong thing. If, for whatever reason, I am unable to give you what you orginally asked for should I not just give you back your money and go seperate ways? And would it not be fair for you to return what I mistakenly gave you?
Generally, I think that’s right, but there’s also a time issue involved in this case. She wanted the item for Christmas; they told she would have it by Christmas, and as a result she didn’t buy something else. To use your shelving analogy, let’s say someone asked you to build shelves for them, and that person was expecting to have them finished by Wednesday two weeks from now (I’m not making up a time frame here, it’s just a random date). Maybe they’re having a TV delivered on Thursday, and they need the shelving unit. You say, “Sure, no problem, I’ll have your shelves finished by then.” But then the due date rolls around, and you ran out of nails on a big job the day before, and so can’t finish the shelves. Even if you offer a refund, the customer is still pretty screwed, because there’s no place to put their TV. And that, I think, is a big part of the problem here; she was expecting to have them by Christmas, so not only did the company drop the ball in a general way, but they dropped the ball during the holiday season. Again, maybe she’s overreacting, maybe she’s not, but the holidays are a pretty emotional time, and companies should be cognizant of that.
I think sometimes is completely reasonable to fire your customers. It was obvious from very early on in that exchange that nothing good was going to come from it.
I’ve been in customer service for years, even at small companies. I would NEVER treat a customer this way. It’s obviously a one-man operation that won’t last too long because he has no idea how good customer service is run. Whenever my current company makes an error, we compensate the customer immediately. It’s not hard.
Even when I sell things on ebay occasionally I wouldn’t give service like that, so saying that it’s OK because it’s a small company is unnacceptable. One time I shipped a sweatshirt that I was unaware had a stain on it. I refunded the customer the entire amount of the sweatshirt plus shipping and let her keep it. And I am one person, and it came out of my pocket. So what? I know what’s right, and what’s wrong, even knowing the lady would never purchase from me again.
It was obvious from very early on in that exchange that nothing good was going to come from it.
You’ve no way to know that- my guess is, had Shaun done the right thing, the customer would have been mollified- and if not, it was his fault, not hers. His solution was unsatisfactory and he had no business taking it out on her for being upset over his half-assed attempts to fix his own fuckup.
That is the worst example of customer service I have ever seen. If Shaun worked as an employee of mine he would be out on his arse so fast it would make his head spin.
I hope this company is dragged through the mud and flinged out the other side – it’s unsurprising that Loren remarks that the BBB have heard negatively of them before.
Shaun, if you’re reading this, pick your skills up. You’re unnecessarily argumentative – the customer has a right to be narky with your company, you have NO right to carry on in such a manner with her.
Absolutely disgraceful.
I work for an Applecentre in Victoria Australia, and this is truly pathetic customer service. She’s not being unreasonable. If they made a mistake, they should pay for shipping, and replace the item with the right one ASAP. Here in aus, even though our profit margins for computers are miniscule and we are probably making less on a computer then most the items at their store, I would ensure that we pick up the goods and replace them properly.
In fact, if the customer was inconvenianced in any way (such as if they lived close and chose to drop the computer off to save us shipping, or even for the fact we sent the wrong product), I’d even be inclined to give them a small award if possible (such as a cheap freebie third party product)
Why? Because any idiot can see that if you don’t, you will quickly lose respect from hundreds of customers in a heartbeat when the customer tells their friends that you did a bad job. Where I work, we have to try our best to make customers happy, or we cannot win. Even if its only 1 lost customer, you may never know when that single customer is in fact the ceo of a major computer who may end up buying alot.
I work in a customer service type position (technical support for a computer hardware manufacturer) so I deal with customers all day long. The way Shaun treated this customer is completely unacceptable.
Particularly if his assertion that it would cost him more to return the candle holder she received than the incorrect item is true, the correct response would have been thus:
We’re really sorry about the mix-up, Loren. Tell you what; since we screwed up, why don’t you go ahead and hang on to that candle holder for your troubles and we’ll go ahead and get your ornament out to you as soon as possible.
Answering like that after she explains what happened makes the customer happy, it costs the company less money than making her send it back, and it heads off the whole escalation of the issue. I’ve seen this type of thing done by my company on many occasions and even done it myself a few times (when there was call for it). I’ve also been on the other end of this. I ordered a DVD for Amazon before Christmas. I received it on the 22nd or 23rd and it was the wrong disc. I went online to send an message to them and found they had already caught the error and reshipped me the correct item (with overnight shipping no less) and I had it the next day. They never even asked for the wrong DVD back. It was a season one box set of the Waltons and I eventually sold it on ebay for around $35. THAT is customer service in my book.
At the very least, either a prepaid label or a cross-shipment should have been done. Don’t tell me that’s an unreasonable expectation. I’m sure he uses some sort of computer program to handle his shipping labels and doesn’t just stick a bunch of stamps on there. It would not have been difficult for him to print out a mailing label and drop it in the mail if he couldn’t email one.
Loren, would I be incorrect in my guess that had he answered like that in the beginning (even after the three emails), you would have been satisfied?
44 in a Row
Thanks for fixing my first example! Actually that works perfectly because it shows the same sort of fallacy in logic. Not fallacy. Required change of options.
You’re correct in that the customer is screwed by the late delivery date. And in that case, there isn’t any way to fix that. Late is late is late. BUT being late is not the end of the world. In your example, the tv can go on the floor. That’s not where it us supposed to go, but it works until the other is fixed or meets the condition required. In the same manner (and something Ive had to do in the past) a gift doesn’t show up you run out, get them something small to unwrap on the day that also contains a note of the up coming gift.
But anyways a company could only mollify (such as returning expediant shipping costs – Lorens original suggestion) when a time critical failure occurs. There is no way to fix. And said mollification doesn’t always mean getting your item.
The problem here is the shopper does not see this as simply two people working something out together. She is seeing this in the “customer is always right” mentality. As a consumer, she assumes business should bend over backward for her and treat her like she’s this incredibly important person. After all, we’re conditioned to expect that as consumers given corporations suffocate their employees to fit into this mold to compete with other corporations who ALSO treat their customers like royalty, albeit superficially. Mind you, the mentality is only skin-deep, and most communication is basically templates.
So when this consumer comes in communcation with an actual person who, despite being a rep for a business actually has FEELINGS, she becomes very, very upset and thinks that any expression at all by him is an assault on her fragile, delicate consumer ego. She’s used to dealing with businesses that snuff-out any emotion and real personality from their employees when handling customers.
I think Shaun handled himself just fine and we need to stop allowing businesses to treat us with these superficial kid-gloves. The guy makes good points. The woman needs to just relax and remember she’s talking to a human being. She’s being unreasonable and I actually find it REFRESHING that WeddingDepot has a guy that kind of replies naturally, not by some suffocating pre-ordained template of “We’re so very sorry that you are not 100% happy about our shopping experience. We will DO EVERYTHING to keep you as a loyal customer.”
So maybe the problem is really instead we should better define what makes a business “professional”.
Lets’s see…
1. Order ornament on SATURDAY 12/16.
2. Takes 5-7 BUSINESS days to make it.
3. That makes it available for shipment at the earliest on FRIDAY 12/22. At the latest with the holiday and all it could have run out to 12/26.
4. Even with the fastest shipping the earliest this item could have arrived (provided they would not deliver on the weekend or Christmas)would have been 12/26
I believe expectations were high to begin with.
Also sending an email on a FRIDAY prior to a holiday will more often than not take some time to be read.
I am in no way condoning the conduct of this so called customer service rep but I do think that some of the dissapointment was/is due to higher than reasonable expectations regarding the shipping.
I will never shop at that place.
I was wondering when Shaun would show up to defend himself by proxy.
There’s a reason businesses use the conciliatory approach. It solves problems quickly and with a minimum of stress. When a person throws fuel on the customer’s fire by acting patronizing or disdainful, nothing positive gets accomplished. It’s actually in the company’s interest to find a solution that leaves the customer pleasantly surprised, because that good will comes back in the form of saved time, energy, and future business.
It’s not “suffocating” to be treated kindly and with competence, but it is becoming rarer, now that the me-first generation is taking up the reins of business.
Oh my god…This is ridiculous. Don’t take offense (because this seems to be a bit of a testy debate as is) but I disagree a bit with you, eido. As nice as it is to feel like you’re speaking with a regular person when interacting with businesses, I think that the “form letter” emails have a bit more of a professional tone, which inspires confidence in the customer. I work in an extremely customer-service oriented department and, as the “face” of my department, I often have to brown-nose and go with the “customer is always right” aspect.
The reason is this: When you go with “the customer is always right” mentality, you ensure customer satisfaction. We were taught in my job that if you interact with a customer 100 times and 99 of those times you were pleasant and accomodating and ONE single time, you were kind of a dick, the customer is going to remember that one negative interaction.
So you’re out $30 for some cheesy-ass candleholder – I think that going along with Loren and making sure her needs were met would be a much greater return than the $35. How many people have read this particular article? You can almost consider that potential customers that Shaun and WeddingDepot have lost. And you can bet that any time Loren hears one of her friends or relatives is getting married, she will mention to avoid WeddingDepot – more money lost. If I were Shaun, I would have looked at the money needed to “fix” the situation as insurance. Insurance of patronage – if not from Loren, at least in the idea that she won’t go around telling people that my company was crap (which I personally think that Shaun’s is…for shame)
The bottom line is that this isn’t a clear-cut case of a business screwing over a blameless customer. This is two people acting testy around each other, and getting pissy over small issues.
Rather than hold this up as an example of a bad business, it may be more credible to sweep it under the rug or file it under “stupid” and forget about it.
Shaun Larson is clearly in the wrong business. He should avoid communicating with customers. After reading his responses concerning his company’s mistake in this exchange, I wouldn’t want to work with him at all, via WeddingDepot or as a photographer.
In terms of customer service and returns… its not necessarily normal practice to require an incorrect or damaged item be sent back before a replacement is issued.
I ordered a monogrammed jewelry box from Pottery Barn. When it arrived I noticed it had a nick in the lid. I called the woman and let her know that I received the item but that it appeared to be damaged. She apologized, asked if I would like an exchange, I said yes. She then said I could hold onto the box until my replacement arrived, with a prepaid shipping label, to return the item to her.
She was pleasant, helpful, kind and considerate. I responded in kind. Note: I was pleasant from the very beginning of the conversation, which may have helped.
Regardless – not all companies get it wrong. Perhaps you should take Shaun’s solution and end your relationship. No doubt eventually most of his other customers will follow suit.
@ Itch, you said:
“So I’ll try to make it generic. You give me money for something, I provide the wrong thing. If, for whatever reason, I am unable to give you what you orginally asked for should I not just give you back your money and go seperate ways? And would it not be fair for you to return what I mistakenly gave you?”
Actually, in contract law, absent some other agreement between the parties, the non-breaching party is entitled to the “benefit of the bargain” which in this case would be the ornament, for the price she paid and no more. The remedy that you’re describing, rescission, is only available in limited instances.
@ eido: I agree that the customer isn’t always right. However, in this case she was.
Within the last 6 months, I’ve had to return warranty items to two sellers — one small, PTVUpgrade.com, and one very large, Garmin. Both sent the replacement item first and allowed me to use the shipping carton the replacement came in to return the original item. Both came with paid return labels. This has almost always been my experience when the company was either in error or there was a warranty issue.
Frankly, I don’t see how a company can stay in business with the policies of Weddingdepot. At the very least they should have immediately informed Loren that they would refund the expedited shipping charge and gone on from there. Good customer service generates repeat sales and new customers through good word of mouth. Need I say more.
They should just get it on. I mean come on, the amount of heat and tension in those emails?? I think someone needs to get laid.
And, btw, I am a CRS, working in a call center overseas (the price you pay for wanting to travel the world!) I agree that most people in Customer Service would love to do what he did, because after all, he is a person too and as humans we sometimes want to stand up for ourselves. (In this case there was nothing really to stand up for though – your comments, as true as they are, were wasted and mis directed on this client! You should see the poo that I have to deal with!!)
I would have my ass canned if I spoke that way to a client, or emailed. And as for even THINKING of laughing at a customer or a customer’s comments (HA HA; as Shaun did) I simply step away from the PC, remind myself that this is NOT personal, it is a JOB, and I’m not 12 years old. And then I move on. It really is that simple.
This company must not have that many clients, because if I took the time and effort to respond that in depth to all my whiny ass customers, I would be working 24/7 for the rest of my life.
Hint for Shaun, make yourself some templates that you can just cut and paste, modify in 5 minutes. That way, you don’t have to sit there and compose emails on your “bad days”. Apparently, your bad days are really really bad.
Or, if you have a personal vendetta against regular, expected, customer service, this should be clearly stated on the website, and not offered on a one by one basis, to specific customers only.
@not_seth_brundle : Huh. Interesting to learn that. Thanks! I admit being an engineer, I tend to approach things that way. I know it doesn’t mean I’m right.
The fact that this Wedding Depot doesn’t provide a contact phone number speaks volumes already. Email is a great tool but if that is the only way you provide for your customers to get in touch with you then you are hiding from your customers.
Yes business is a two party transaction but the fact of the matter is, is that the customer is the one with the cash and thus is the one who deserves satisfaction if the person who wants the cash really wants the cash…
Of all the jaw-dropping statements and claims on this thread, I think I’m most surprised by the number of us who have ordered an item and received the wrong one. I shop online quite a lot, and I’ve never received the wrong item shipped (I’m actually more likely to get home from a brick and mortar store and have my wife say “you were supposed to get the low-fat whatevers, not the non-fat whatevers.”) Have I just been uncommonly lucky? (I mean lucky in my online shopping experience…I already know I’m uncommonly lucky in the patience and love and total hottiness of my wife).