Beckie is a reader who started out with a cell phone from a small company that got bought by AT&T. As you well know, AT&T was bought by Cingular. A few months later, Beckie received a letter from Cingular asking her to voluntarily discontinue her service because more than 50% of her calls were using competing networks and she was no longer economically feasible for Cingular. In return, Cingular would allow her to keep her numbers. No refund. No apology. No free unlocked phones.
As you might imagine, Beckie wasn’t thrilled at the idea of buying three new phones just to help a corporation save some money, so she called the 1-800 number and said, “No.” They shut off her phones anyway.
Now, we’re no experts, but we’re pretty sure that the idea of the contract is that two people/businesses/whatever agree to something and then they are obligated to do it. Right? Beckie said “No.” Cingular should be obligated to provide her with service. Then, again…
If it wasn’t “economically feasible” for Beckie to continue to pay her bill, we’re certain Cingular would’ve happily let her out of her contract with no penalty. Right? That’s the policy, right?
Now Beckie is asking for your advice. Read her email after the jump:
I just read about this site in reader’s digest. I started out several years ago with wireless company named Sun com which was bought our sometime later by AT&T. I added another phone to my service under AT&T which was later bought out by Cingular. I added another phone for my pregnant daughter-in-law. She talked a good bit on hers on her comute to work approximately 50 miles, in her last month or two of pregnancy. The bill was little more than usual but it was paid on time, no late charges. It seems a lot of this time she was bouncing off of other wireless towers.
Cingular sent me a letter a month or two later saying that over 50% of my airtime was coming off of other peoples towers and it was no longer economically feasible for them to keep me as customer and asked if I would voluntarally let them cancel my contract, in return I could keep my old numbers.(Duh, they have to do that anyway!)
They told me my coverage would end 8/15/06. I called them at the 800 number they provided and complained several times.
I had about 5 months left on my daughter-in-laws phone and over a year on the other two phones.
I sent them a letter explaining, that no I would not voluntarally do this, If it had been the other way around, they would have made me buy out my contract or turn me over to the credit bureau.Anyway, they cut off my phone service on 8/16/06.
Now I have three phones that are locked by cingular, I can’t use another company’s sim cards in them.
In order to have wireless service, I have to purchase three more phones. What if the next company does the same thing?
There are two cingular stores within 10 blocks of my work place and seven miles of where I live.
Does anybody have any suggestions, or has the sames thing happened to you?
Beckie Edwards
Hanceville, Alabama
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SLOW DOWN FOLKS.
Beckie: FYI, I’m not an attorney. Consult legal council before contining. Your local bar association can usually recommend an attorney who will discuss the matter with you for a minimal fee, then allow you to choose if you would like to proceed further. But here’s my take: unless they can prove you agreed to allow them to cancel your agreement under these terms, Cingular is in breach of contract.
Check your old contract. Not the one with Cingular. Not the one with AT&T. The contract with Suncom is at this point the most important. Read it carefully. Under what circumstances were they allowed to cancel your contract? Do you see a clause that applies? Most current contracts with cellular carriers contain clauses regarding this specific issue (Cingular’s certaainly does), but that was not the contract you agreed to. And when Cingular (preceded by AT&T) agreed to continue your contract, they did precisely that: CONTINUED your contract. Unless you signed/agreed to a new one, you’re still under the old one.
Now, there are some exceptions to this. Many carries will now include a clause stating that they reserve the right to change the contract. However, they must allow you out of your contract if you dislike the new changes. Obviously that doesn’t help your current situation, but that’s one way out. Was there a clause regarding contract changes?
Also, Sun Com, AT&T, Cingular may have sent something to you at some point in the past that said “Hi, the following change/merger/purchase has taken place, and here’s how it affects you. If you don’t like this please cancel.” This sort of thing is also usually allowed. But if you received no notification from anyone (and the carriers can’t prove they legally changed the terms), and if there was no verbiage in the original contract allowing this sort of behavior, Cingular is legally in breach of contract. Breach of contract either means A] that they must immediately enable your service, B] pay you punitive damages or C] both. An attorney would be able to best suggest the course of action based on the situation.
To close, I would like to mention again that I am *not* that attorney. However, over the last four years I’ve successfully gotten myself and my friends out of over $15,000 in excessive cellular phone charges, and managed to cancel any cellular contract I or they were in without incurring cancellation fees. (I happen to understand the carrier’s methods, rules and contracts quite well, and am able to deal with people in adverse situations much better than most folks I know… so my friends and family usually come to me.) I can’t say for sure how they will respond, but my understanding is this: without a contract or valid paperwork allowing them the right to change the original contract (and depending on your state’s contract law, of course), canceling your service because it isn’t profitable is a breach of contract and thus, against the law.
If you do NOT want to take the legal route, your only recourse is arguing with Cingular Corporate, or changing carriers. The advice you’ve received about unlocking the phones is correct: Cingular can (though it is a PAIN to get them to do so) provide you with unlocking instructions for MOST phones. If they are unable to do so, many all-in-one independent cellular shops are also able to do so… though you do run the risk that they are unable to do it correctly. (Some phones will permanently SIM-lock to your current carrier if you rty unsuccessfully to unlock it to many times.) However, if you don’t have a particularly complex phone, this should not be too much of an issue. As a final recourse you can also contact the manufacturer. They are not usually sympathetic to carrier-customer disputes, but this is a rare situation: Cingular made the choice to cancel the agreement; not you. The only reason for SIM-locking a phone is to prevent customer churn. (Turnover.) Phones are expensive, and usually provided at a discount to entice users to sign contracts. If not for that, there would be no reason to lock the phone, which is why the unlocked phones are more expensive than the locked ones.
Good luck,
Ezra
Cingular did that to me in July. I told the CSR I just bought a new phone for me and my wife costing 300 dollars total. He agreed to credit the 300 dollars for the phones. I also mentioned to him that I didn’t expect to pay activation fees for the new service. Once I found out activation fees they credited me for 60 dollars in activation fees.
At the end of the month when they ended my contract I had 300 dollars credit less my final bill then another check for 60 dollars to my activation fees. I opted not to keep my numbers since I moved to another state.
That sucks rocks. Want to do an interview on my podcast, The Awful Show (http://AwfulShow.com)? We’ll be recording Friday night between 9PM and midnight, EST. If you want to tell your story to our listeners, I would LOVE to help spread the word.
If interested, contact me by
E-mail: nerraux@hotmail.com or AIM: Nerraux
I also had a phone that was taken over by AT&T years ago. It worked out that I was actually happy with them. Of all the things AT&T never did well, their cell service and customer service for it was always first-rate. Then came Cingular’s buy out. What a piece-of-crap company. I -HATE- Verizon, but I think they’re getting my business the next time my contract is up.
whoa … before you start advising the customer to delve into their old contracts, she will need to realize that it is only the contract under which each individual line of service is currently operating that is relevant to the situation. if she got a new contract, which is highly likely because wireless carriers always push you for one (discounted phone price, special rate plan promotions) then she very well may be under a Cingular contract. as outlined above that 50% usage on network is included clause is included, and therefore not much can be done except unlocking the phones and going somewhere else. this of course assumes that you are using GSM phones and not TDMA phones.
as far as unlocking the phones, that is usually a pretty easy process. a form is usually filled out, and after about 1 week you should have the unlock codes. as long as the account is zeroed out, there should be no problem. also, going to the phone manufacturer for the unlock codes would not be advisable, as they normally refer you back to the service provider. be careful with the unlock codes … most manufacturers only give you 5 tries before the device is permanently locked to only accepting a cingular sim card.
as far as the legal route … under the old at&t wireless contracts, which from the cingular wireless/at&t merger could still be in place for her, because of fcc regulations. she defacto agrees to the terms and conditions the first time she uses her wireless service. this could be important, because within that it states that you waive all right to sue, and your only recourse would be for arbitration. i could not see why cingular would be any different, but again the terms of service would need to be scrutinized.
there are of course reasons that would exempt the customer from the terms of the contract, but generally you begin to enter the criminal justice realm with gross negligence, etc.
in response to castlecraver … as long as you are using cingular towers, then they shouldn’t have a problem. they may want to go ahead and get you a phone number change to reflect the area that you now find yourself in, but as long as 51% of your usage is on cingular towers you won’t need to worry about it.
in response to someworkinggirl … you are completely right, cingular store reps do not have the ability to unlock phones. the only way to go about it the “approved” way is by calling into one of cingulars care numbers and having the representative fill out a request and go from there. other things mentioned like using the internet, or some guys in a van, could very well get you the unlock code, but could also very well get the phone permanently locked to the cingular network, so that only a cingular sim card would work.
in response to jim_cook … you’re friend got lucky. it really does depend on who the person talks to at cingular when they call in. the level of competence and expertise can vary widely, and that is not only the representative but also their supervisor. in any call center, there can be both those people who are very agreeable as well as those that can be hard cases. with that said … usually rep shopping is a bad idea, as it is more than likely that should the customer do that, it will be noted on the account, which would mean that they would be less likely to work with you on an issue.
in response to brh986 … once you take a look at the size of cingulars operation, it is highly likely that whatever letters written on behalf of the customer will find themselves filed in the shredder. generally speaking, it is only if you are an extremely important person that you’ll see any resolution from something like the course of action you described. with the cingular/at&t wireless merger that happened a couple years ago, the customer base went to something like 50 million and it keeps on growing. according to information released by cingular they now have almost 56 million subscribers. also factor in that is is also very possible that the media outlets that you would refer the customer to may very well have a contract/corporate agreement with cingular.
in wrapping this all up … it looks likely that while unfair, cingular is likely operating within legality. and if anybody wants to see which us gsm carrier will have coverage in your area, and for becky to unlock her phone … go to http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/cou_us.shtml find the carrier and click on their coverage map. the only real GSM competitor for cingular is t-mobile, whereas verizon and sprint/nextel are CDMA which would mean she’d have to get new phones if she wanted to move to them.
whoa … before you start advising the customer to delve into their old contracts, she will need to realize that it is only the contract under which each individual line of service is currently operating that is relevant to the situation. if she got a new contract, which is highly likely because wireless carriers always push you for one (discounted phone price, special rate plan promotions) then she very well may be under a Cingular contract. as outlined above that 50% usage on network is included clause is included, and therefore not much can be done except unlocking the phones and going somewhere else. this of course assumes that you are using GSM phones and not TDMA phones.
as far as unlocking the phones, that is usually a pretty easy process. a form is usually filled out, and after about 1 week you should have the unlock codes. as long as the account is zeroed out, there should be no problem. also, going to the phone manufacturer for the unlock codes would not be advisable, as they normally refer you back to the service provider. be careful with the unlock codes … most manufacturers only give you 5 tries before the device is permanently locked to only accepting a cingular sim card.
as far as the legal route … under the old at&t wireless contracts, which from the cingular wireless/at&t merger could still be in place for her, because of fcc regulations. she defacto agrees to the terms and conditions the first time she uses her wireless service. this could be important, because within that it states that you waive all right to sue, and your only recourse would be for arbitration. i could not see why cingular would be any different, but again the terms of service would need to be scrutinized.
there are of course reasons that would exempt the customer from the terms of the contract, but generally you begin to enter the criminal justice realm with gross negligence, etc.
in response to castlecraver … as long as you are using cingular towers, then they shouldn’t have a problem. they may want to go ahead and get you a phone number change to reflect the area that you now find yourself in, but as long as 51% of your usage is on cingular towers you won’t need to worry about it.
in response to someworkinggirl … you are completely right, cingular store reps do not have the ability to unlock phones. the only way to go about it the “approved” way is by calling into one of cingulars care numbers and having the representative fill out a request and go from there. other things mentioned like using the internet, or some guys in a van, could very well get you the unlock code, but could also very well get the phone permanently locked to the cingular network, so that only a cingular sim card would work.
in response to jim_cook … you’re friend got lucky. it really does depend on who the person talks to at cingular when they call in. the level of competence and expertise can vary widely, and that is not only the representative but also their supervisor. in any call center, there can be both those people who are very agreeable as well as those that can be hard cases. with that said … usually rep shopping is a bad idea, as it is more than likely that should the customer do that, it will be noted on the account, which would mean that they would be less likely to work with you on an issue.
in response to brh986 … once you take a look at the size of cingulars operation, it is highly likely that whatever letters written on behalf of the customer will find themselves filed in the shredder. generally speaking, it is only if you are an extremely important person that you’ll see any resolution from something like the course of action you described. with the cingular/at&t wireless merger that happened a couple years ago, the customer base went to something like 50 million and it keeps on growing. according to information released by cingular they now have almost 56 million subscribers. also factor in that is is also very possible that the media outlets that you would refer the customer to may very well have a contract/corporate agreement with cingular.
in wrapping this all up … it looks likely that while unfair, cingular is likely operating within legality. and if anybody wants to see which us gsm carrier will have coverage in your area, and for becky to unlock her phone … go to http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/cou_us.shtml find the carrier and click on their coverage map. the only real GSM competitor for cingular is t-mobile, whereas verizon and sprint/nextel are CDMA which would mean she’d have to get new phones if she wanted to move to them.
Having working service is the most important consieration. Ring tones, pictures: none of it matters if the damn phone doesn’t work.
Stinkular, as I call them, at least allows you to roam on other networks (important, given how spotty their network is). This means that you have some chance that your phone will work. (Doubly so, if you have an older multi-mode GAIT phone that does GSM, us-tdma, and AMPS.
Stinking Verizon has essentially shut off all roaming. If you stumble outside of their coverage area, you are SOL. And, in many areas where they are a come-lately add-on player (running up at 1900) they have a VERY thin network, with very few cell sites, and very poor in-building penetration.
I think Cingular blows like everyone else. Their engineering staff must be former McDonalds utility staff (trash can emptiers). But at least they allow you to roam, and thus “maybe” the phone works. The same cannot be said about Verizon outside their old 800Mhz stomping grounds.
The cost is that Cingular has to pay competitors for air time. If they don’t pass it on to the consumer, then they run the risk of losing money. Hense their policy to drop users who roam off-net a lot.
I’d rather pay the roaming charges, or pay a surcharge each month TO HAVE A PHONE THAT WORKS EVERYWHERE. Nothing is more important than the phone actually working. Tones n’ tunes don’t make calls go through. TOWERS n’ transmitters (and roaming agreements) cost the carrier a lot more, but THEY MAKE THE NETWORK WORK.
Unfortunately, this clasue was written into your contract the day that you signed it. Cingular just never decided to enforce it before now.
I am a former employee of Cingular Wireless, and was sick to find out that they finally decided to enforce this policy. I was a sales rep, and i couldnt believe that in the interest of saving a few bucks, I would be losing long term and loyal customers. I had customers that only wanted to deal with me, and that i always made sure to do everything i could to help them out. Can you imagine how hard it was for me to tell some of MY loyal customers that, “this is a business decision that Cingular has made”, and that there was nothing i could do to help?
So i just referred them to the department that was hadling claims, thats all i could do. They do take into account longevity on an individual basis, yet in your case you have a false reading of longevity. Every customer who came over in the merger has a account creation date from the day they were placed in our system. So you were likely to get denied, seeing as the computer thinks you have only been a customer for under 2 years.
One thing i can do is to let you know that a lot of local cellphone repair shops have machines which can unlock your phone. Usually for a small fee, but i can guarantee you that it is a lot cheaper than buying 3 new phones. That way you can use your phone with another carrier which uses the same technology as Cingular. Good luck.
By the way, ENGERENGER-
Beckie said she added anothe phone to the plan after the switch to cingular, this means at some point she started a new plan with cingular and ultimately signed a new contract, when this happens, cingular voids the old contract and starts a new one. Therefore finding the suncom contract would be useless.
-A-
Ezra Eckman
Something similar happened to me. I was deployed to Alaska with the military. I have 3 phones on the Family Plan in Missouri. There were about 100 of us deployed. About 80 personnel had Cingular phones. I was the only one of 80 that they tried to cancel service on. Instead of cancelling my service, they locked all 3 phones against roaming charges. So now I have a phone, I pay my monthly fee, but have no service.
Joyce
Guys..everyone does this due to the new “No Roaming Charges” now if your Sim Card or Phone have the Logo for ATT Ebridered onto it..not the screen…then you are NOT getting Cingular coverage. Instead you are getting the lousy crap coverage of ATT after they made massave mistakes that led to the buyout.
On another Note SunCom is still in operation. Otherwise my site and phonescoop would not link to their official webpages.
@quiksilver: I am an old school att customer with tdma.
I have a DIGITAL ADVTG 350 plan that includes 1050 MINUTES, mob 2 mob, unlim night and weekends for $39.99. I am now on a month to month contract.
I have been battling with cingular/att to get a comparable plan that is also MONTH TO MONTH. I have been offered 450 mins w/ 200 bonus and a free new KRZR phone for 39.99. I was told month to month is not an option.
This sucks lily white butt in my opinion.
I am looking for advice on how to get what I want from this company!!! Does anyone have any experience with this situation.
ARG. save me.
Cingular can make all the “requests” they want, Beckie – but they’re in a triple bind.
First, in the US your phone numbers belong to you. Not to Ma Bell, or whatever name the floozy is using this week.
Second, Cingular (and other phone companies) put clauses in their contracts which look forbidding but which won’t hold up in a court of law – what the legal beagles call “in terrorem” clauses. Get in touch with an attorney who’s tangled with the phone company and find out what the LAW says versus what the language of the contract says.
Third, Cingular and other local phone service providers also have to answer to local public service commissions.
While these agencies (more often individual commissioners) sometimes sell out to Ma Bell, most of the time your state (sometimes it’s a city or county agency, but most often state government level) public service commission is obliged to represent you, the citizen. Especially (as others here have pointed out) during election years.
It also helps to contact state and US Senators and Representatives (Assemblymen, whatever they call them where you live), city, parish, or county council members – they may have no direct authority under the law but probably have nice phone lists with the names of people who DO have this authority.
Also, someone else here suggested the state Attorney General, which is a darn good idea. Every now and then a large corporation decides to screw people over and falls afoul of a state attorney general who needs publicity as Defender of the Little Guy. As in “class-action lawsuit.”
In fact, I’m surprised that none of the ambulance chas-er, attorneys you see on television has decided to buy air time soliciting clients among those who have been illegally jerked around by cell-phone providers.
Me, I use Boost. Costs me about $20 every three months, no contract, and I just tell them to hit my checking account for another twenty bucks by phone when my minutes run low.
My wife and son also use Boost, and they have the same deal as me – twenty bucks every three months (well, my son uses his cell phone more often than do we, being an offshore worker and having an outdoor lifestyle. His business, and he pays the freight).
I can’t begin to describe how much better this is than when my wife, son and I shared a single phone from Cingular on a contract that obligated them to not much of anything and us to paying anywhere from sixty to two hundred bucks a month.
And the phone we were lease-purchasing from Cingular suuuuucked compared to our Boost phones, which have color screens, Java, support TV (should we ever decide it’s worth a ton of money to watch TV on our cell phone), and built-in GPS (“Global Positioning System” – handy because our local law-enforcement/public safety agencies support “mobile 911,” which allows them to have a fairly good idea of where we are when we call 911 on our cell phones to report an accident, a broken traffic light, or a riot in progress).
They also will (for an extra day-by-day charge which is much cheaper than buying a Garmin) provide a moving-map display of directions, just like one of those pricey $300 GPS machines. In fact, the thing will use its GPS chip to tell you where you are, or how fast you’re moving down the road, for free. I feel just like a yuppie.
Oh, and since I was shopping at a Target store that was clearing out its merchandise before moving to a new building, I got our Boost cell phones for $10 a piece (with $10 worth of free air time thrown in with the phone). Cool, huh?
You less fortunate people out there will have to pay between $30 and $80 (depending on how cool you’d like your phone to be) for the phone, and an amount every three months (which is how long your pre-paid minutes last) which varies with how talkative you are.