That's a miserable experience, to be sure, but hardly universal. I've purchased two Toyotas in my life (a Camry and an MR2 Spyder) and been very satisfied with the buying process, the quality of the rides, and the incredible resale values.

I'm not particularly knowledgeable about the relationship between individual dealerships and automobile manufacturers (and I suppose it varies), but I don't think car salepeople or sales managers can generally be considered employees of the manufacturer. You might have a problem with Toyota because you didn't like the Prius, but your real beef is with the dealership and an individual employee of the dealership.

That said, I suppose your point is that corporate responsibility for affiliated entities shouldn't end with legal relationships.

Consumerist scores again. The "one unhappy customer will not hurt us" philosophy (that a few years ago could only be countered with a Better Business Bureau visit or a credible "Channel 7 Investigative Team" threat) is now no more than famous last words.

I too met a shady Prius Dealer. Mike Worthy of Stone Mtn Toyota in Stone Mountain, GA.

I had negotiated a price and put down a deposit on a 2005 prius last August for a Prius still coming in on a ship.

THREE WEEKS LATER when it was arriving, he annouced they "Couln't be stopped" from adding a $800 6 disc car stereo to the car at the port.

I only would pay him $200 for it, but I am never doing business at that location again (even service) and will tell all of you: Do not order a car then not sign a bill of sale. Southeast Toyota, Stone Mountain Toyota, and Mike Worthy in particular, will change the deal at the last moment to squeeze anything out of you.

If you live in the southeast, drive up to TN. They are a different Toyota district, and aren't owned by the same shady guy who owns so much of the SE.

--Michael

While trying to "return" a car with 1K miles on it is kind of a shady move, it does NOT warrant any sort of harassment. I hope everything works out for you, but next time chose wisely; car dealerships have no return policy.

Yes, folks, that's Consumerist, where lazy journalists go for story ideas.

A return policy should not matter now. When contract was signed, the salesguy presented FRAUD! Also he illegally used private information to use for harassment. I have a strong case against Toyota of Naperville. I want the owner Dan Wolf to own up to this and correct the wrong doing that has been done to us.

Sounds like the guy had a pretty bad experiance.

Having said that, he also sounds pretty dumb. A car is more than likly the second largest expense of your life, it will cost you thousands of dollars, and you will use it almost everyday, and yet, he spent 5 mins in a test drive, did not bother to read the contract, did not attempt to understand the financing, did not shop around.

I dont know jack about cars personally, but I do know enough to research my purchasing decisions. I also know that a deal that will only last "until the end of the day" is bogus, and I proved when I brought my car. I resisted the pressure tactics to buy the extended warrenty because it was an obvious waste of money, and if the financing sounds bogus, go check with someone else.

Seriously, apart from the sleaze calls, which are obviously a bad thing, I have no pity for the rest of this story.

The _Truth:

We DID NOT know at the time of siging the contract the salesman was committing fraud. We found that out thru another dealership that it is FRAUD when the salesguy tells you in order to be fianced thru Toyota that these extended warranties had to be purchased. Fraud was committed here or why on EARTH would the salesguy harassed my wife for 4 months after the deal was done!

RandomHookup: You make an excellent point. Journalists have a pointed disdain for bloggers that pretend to be journalists, but more and more I'm finding that Journalists are often stealing story ideas from blogs and not crediting them.

I don't mind that the Journalists come here for their story ideas but please give thanks to the consumerist.com site.

Reminds me of something my parents went though many years ago at a now-defunct Mazada dealer. My mother was leasing a new 929 and had all the terms worked out. A month later, she received the first statment and discovered that it was about $150 more a month than she had agreed to.

She called Mazda and was told that was what the contact she signed said. She had a copy in front of her and it didn't. They faxed what they had, and some idiot had gone though the contract after she signed it and crossed out the amounts and put in higher ones. When she confronted them about it, they claimed that the original amount, that she had signed for, was too low for the car and she would have to pay more.

They backed down very fast when she faxed them a copy that she had, and used the word "Lawyer" very liberally.

Dr. Eirik:

Dan Wolf's lawyer told my lawyer to take us to court. They did not want to settle out of court. We have a copy of phone records for April 2006. It proves to be Mr. Gentile's numbers. I am glad to hear that your folks did not have to go for legal help. The dealership was very wise to back down.

I'm sorry, but Mark is a dope. You don't buy an automobile without researching it, checking your credit first, checking bank/credit union loan rates, etc. before going to the dealer.
You don't put buying a car on the same level as an afternoon at WAL*MART buying Jockey underwear, beef jerky, and the latest DVD release.

Sir WInston Thriller:

I was referred to the dealership by a family member and also I did read about the PRIUS. When I went in early Dec 2005 to sign for the car, I thought that my credit was fine since I just purchased a house out in Rockford. The guy was smooth by saying that due to credit problems in the past.

I don't necessarily agree with calling Mark names. Yes, he didn't research thoroughly and let himself get steamrolled into some really shitty (and illegal terms), but this has gone beyond that. I also don't agree with the returning of the car, but fraud is fraud. The dealership fucked him over, and illegally at that.

I drive daily in one direction 70 miles to work 5 days aweek. I needed a car that did not have a big gas tank.. To drive my Montana daily the cost for gas was getting to be about $130 aweek. Yes I was in a hurry to get a vechile smaller to save on gas. Still when Fraud has been committed the contract should be nulled and voided. Especially with the harassing phone calls.

Mark: Read my comment again, the sleaze calls I agree with you 100%, they are wrong, and hopefully you can either sue the guy into the ground or get some decent punishment onto him. However, the point of my post is that Your actions up to that point were uneducated, not researched and your own fault. In the contract you signed, what does it say about returning a car? you did read the contract right? because in mine I cant return the new car I brought unless their are some extreme circumstances (IE things that will never happen). But then, this is something I knew, as reading the contract before I signed it is something I did. It took me 20mins to read the thing inside and out, it pissed the finance guy off, but who cares?

Heres a hint, next time the try to sell you GAP insurance, and they tell you it covers blah, blah and acts of god, ask them "What is the definition of acts of god?" and then ask them to show you, where in the contract to add GAP insurance it says acts of god. My guy couldent find it, amusingly neither could his manager.

Long story short, pay attention to what you agree to, do your research. You have NO obligation to buy from the guy.

I should also point out that getting EPA milage is tough to do, hence the reason why (again) you should do your research, and you would see that getting high milage in a car can be tough, depending on a variety of factors.

Sure the guy may have lied to you when telling you about finances, but you did check other places right? you didnt just walk into one dealership, right? right?

Mark - since you are reading this I have a few questions..

First, if an act of fraud is committed during the signing of a contract that contract can be declared void and unenforceable. Doesn't your legal counsel that you retained know this?

Second, if you knew fraud existed but continued on paying for the car, etc. then you are accepting the terms of that contract. So it may be too late to help.

Finally, I hope you learned a hard lesson here. First, stop dealing with a company that is not helping you finance. You do not mention once that you looked elsewhere for financing. Second, you should never buy anything sight unseen. Third, never agree to a contract unless you are willing to abide by the rules of it. Regardless of the fraud you still committed to paying a considerable amount of extra money. Why not just walk away from the deal? You must have been desperate for a car but the cost of a Prius could land you a used car for far less while you attempted to work out the details of perhaps owning a better car.

Finally, stop blaming Toyota Corporate. The salespeople are not employees of Toyota. Yes, they sell the cars and as such Toyota should have vested interest in the conduct of its franchises but the reality is that you wanted to return a car that you bought and drove and that's simply not possible.

The harassment part is all secondary to this situation and is completely wrong. But if there was an arrest warrant for this man issued on June 6 has he been arrested now? It's not like he should have been hard to find managing that Pontiac dealership.

My complaint now is not about the car functions. It is about the Fraud and phone harassment that was done by their employee.

Read the story more closely. I voluntary turned the car in. I never sent them anything! Lawyer said after car has been repro, the only way we can settle this is by suing. On Saturday I am meeting my lawyer. I plan on suing Toyota of Naperville. How can I not blame Toyota Corporate when it is going to be Corporate's lawyers defending the dealership. Don't know why the scum has not been picked up yet..

Dustin writes:

"I'd just like to add that when a sale is made involving fraud on the part of the seller, as it was in this case, the contract is null and void. In fact when the seller is convicted of said fraud, they are legally obligated to restitution; returning the victim to a state that approximates that before the fraud was committed. Therefore, ragging on poor Mark for "returning" his automobile is moot. This was not a return, it was an attempt at restitution for a fraudulent sale. Mark was attempting to allow the dealership to do the right thing without involving the legal system, apparently to no avail."

Thank you Dustin. The Fraud that has been committed here has my credit destroyed. As of now on my credit report Toyota Financial has put on outstanding debit $5,700.00

Mark - I read the story. You garaged the car. Then you apparently stopped paying for it because you talk about $555 being applied to missed payments. Then while at the dealer you speak of talking with Toyota and you mention voluntary surrender. It's not exactly clear you were giving the car up, but fine you did. Essentially you defaulted on your loan and the car got repossessed.

Why on Earth did you stop paying for it? You've made some really, really bad decisions in dealing with this and I think are bringing more problems upon yourself than you needed.

Your original complaint was that you did not like the car. Well, that's too bad. You don't get to return it. Your next complaint is that it did not get EPA estimates. Any basic research would tell you that the EPA only allows automakers to advertise EPA estimates and that on hybrid cars those estimates are out of line because of outdated testing methods. Again, customer fault.

You then complain about the arbitration process which is what you agreed to in the contract. Again, whose fault is that? Yours.

You claim the salesman told you it would hold value. He showed you a website that showed at that point time the current market value of that car. Market values change, you should have known that.

At that point you speak of garaging the car. Apparently you also stopped paying for it. That's your fault again.

Other than the harassing phone calls and the apparent fraud committed during the contract signing I don't see much else that you haven't simply brought upon yourself.

It sounds like you overextended yourself in the first place to buy the car based on hype. Once you realized your mistake you tried to get out of it and sadly that was not possible.

You have a chance with the fraud angle but don't delude yourself into thinking other rights of yours were somehow stepped on.

Finally, why not call the police and ask why he hasn't been arrested?

I never paid a cent for the car.. Again when I was refunded for the warranties that I agreed to under a lie (which I did not know at that time it was Fraud), The Financial Department took it upon themselves to apply it as a payment to my dismay.

No I did not know that market value change. I was trusting the guy. Regardless they were in the wrong here and I have phone records that it was the dealership employee. I am owed here and I want the dealership to own up to their MISTAKE!

I think everyone is getting caught up in the whole "returning the car" part, and what Mark is saying is that isn't the point. The fact that he tried to return it after using it for a week may have been naive to some degree, but unless he had done it he wouldn't have discovered the fraud.

So while he doesn't have much right to defend the retun attempt, he does have the right to be glad he did or else he would have been paying out the ass for the stupid warranties. Good luck in court Mark, this dealer needs to be taught a lesson.

Dont most dealers have a 30 day no questions asked return policy?

I know when I bought my Cobalt it did.

Thank you Dr. Paul Proteus. Thank you for reminding the readers here what the point is. I will keep you readers informed with any new updates. I was also told to picket the dealership, don't know the law into it but I am asking my Lawyer about it on Saturday.

Falconfire:

You are right some do now.. I don't know which ones offer it.

LTS! has it perfectly... In fact I had pretty much the same comment typed up and held off after reading his/her's.

Basically sure there was fraud and that really does void the contract, but most of your whineing comes from poor decisions on your part and well suck it up and learn not to make the same mistakes again.

Okayplayer:

I will NOT suck it UP and take the lost here. I am putting MY FOOT DOWN. It does not matter on my poor decissions here.. What MATTERS that FRAUD was committed and Harassment done by the DEALERSHIP employee Mr. Jim Gentile.

Please, please, please stop capitalizing "fraud." It's hurting me inside.

I really feel for the guy, but the real problem is this: "I drive daily in one direction 70 miles to work 5 days aweek"

A weekly 700-mile commute? You drive the equivalent of New York City to Louisville, Kentucky every week? Ever heard of conservation? The environment? It's not just some nebulous idea, y'know.

Sorry for the Caps but I want the word Fraud to be known for my complaint here as well as the Harassment. I did not plan to drive to work so far from home. My previous job was traveling. When I purchased my home the Summer of 2005, I was on travel. After closing on the house late summer 2005 I was notified that my previous company sold.First job offer came, I took it regardless of the distance from my home to job.

I don't like to generalize, but I tried like hell to buy a Prius in June, 2004, and virtually every Chicagoland Toyota dealer I visited (including the legendary Napervile location, Schaumberg, Libertyville and Evanston) gave me the willies.

It was my first car purchase ever, and I wanted it over, but I wasn't in a rush. (Not owning a car, I could get along without one indefinitely.)

I had a slew of research under my belt--I'd run Consumer Reports pricing indexes on my top three choices (Prius, Corolla, and way at the back, Honda Civic), and done extensive price checking online. Yet over and over, I'd hear that a heavily padded price was "what X goes for these days." One test drive, in Evanston, was riddled with so many lies that by the time the salesman told me I'd "love owning a car", I started to think car ownership would suck.

This is just me, but I wish to God someone would realize that some consumers will only spend money when a sales person that don't contradict them at every turn. The first or second time I tell you that I've seen a newer car, with more features, selling at this price, and that I won't be buying this car without a significant mark down, stop trying to tell me I'm mistaken.

In the end, I could not find a Toyota dealership I would spend money with. As a last ditch effort, I let my in-laws talk me into going to Honda of Lisle.

Thank fricking God for Honda of Lisle. My salesperson (Manny) did not give me any crap when I told him I wasn't going to make the decision without thinking it over for at least a few hours. When I told him I couldn't pay more than $X for the certified used Honda Civic in question, he not only didn't argue, he knocked another $2K off of $X.

Which would suggest that all along, I hadn't really been bargaining that hard. If the Toyota staff hadn't been so black-is-white, day-is-night, they could have sold me a Corolla for a tidy profit and laughed all the way to the bank. Instead, they made me a Honda customer for life. I wouldn't set foot in a Toyota dealership if a free Prius were waiting inside.

If I were independently wealthy, I would be very tempted to set up a car dealership and see if being totally above board would work as a business strategy, or if you have to lie and cheat to survive as a dealer.

I am very impressed with the Honda's. I purchased a used 1991 Honda Civic and loved it. I was getting over 40 miles per a gallon. It died just recently and I purchased a 1997 Dodge Neon and I am getting 36-40 miles per a gallon. I agree after this ordeal I will never buy another Toyota as long as I live!

OK, whoa, whoa, whoa. So once you presented the fraud to Toyota, they credited you back the fraudulent charges? So, at that point the car obligation was squared away from a fraud/financial perspective. Them applying the $4K amount to the loan is an acceptable method of restitution. I know it was a pain in the arse, but it came to resolution, right?

After the fraud had been settled, the motivation for the return was you just not liking the car and disagreeing with the stated mpg?

Granted, you made contact with the salesman through the process, but his harrassment of you and your wife is a seperate civil/criminal matter unrelated to the vehicle purchase. As long as those calls were made on Jim's personal time from his personal numbers, the dealership has no liability for them. They should fire him if it's proven that he did them, but they hold no duty to make restitution to you if he did not undertake those actions as a representative of the company.

So, it sounds like after much wailing and gnashing of teeth that you want to return a car that you purchased and weren't happy with because of the mpg and comfort. Those two items, given proper research, planning, and consideration, could have been avoided. (It's known that most cars don't get nearly the stated EPA mpg - hybrids are especially eggregious overestimators).

I would submit that as a responsible consumer, you should accept a bad decision for what it is and work with it - not demand to be released from a contractual obligation because of items that were within your control.

Elivsisdead:

No it is not resolved. Toyota financial wants $5700.00 for a car that I turned in.. This debit should be nulled and void.

It does not matter if Jim made the call's on his own time or NOT! He would have never have known who were are and our information if he was never employeed by Toyota... We HOLD the Dealership owner responsible for this! It was THEIR employee who took my information home for his own amusement illegally.. It is not seperate/civil suit here. We were told by lawyer that the Dealership owner and Jim Gentile will be served in the Law Suit. He is still the owner's employee thru his Pontiac Dealership in Countryside, IL

oh jesus kate and mark... don't blame toyota. i had an EXCELLENT experience with a Motorcars Toyota in Cleveland Heights, Ohio - internet saleswoman gave me their best price, and vs. what I'd seen on edmunds as "true market value" at the time, it was a great deal. no pressure, no harassment, and never once did i feel like i was in a sleazy dealership.
EVERY DEALERSHIP IS DIFFERENT - regardless of the brand of vehicle. when i moved to chicago, i started going to grossinger here in the city; but now i can say to you that after i felt i got ripped off on tires (paid for 4 of them then literally the next day in the mail got a coupon for "buy 3 get one free", for which they would not simply refund my money for one of the tires) i will never return to that dealership again. so apparently all toyota dealerships in the chicagoland area suck. back in the cleveland-area, i'd always heard horror stories about Honda of Mentor. does that mean i think honda, as a vehicle manufacturer, sucks? no. because i'm not an idiot. grow up, you two.

but, mark, good luck in nailing this gentile guy's ass to the wall. and the dealership for promoting such awful behavior, too.

Any such name:

You are right that every dealership is different. I had such a bad expirence with the Dealership and Corporate that I will never buy a Toyota car again. The issue here is the damaged that was done to my credit cause of Mr. Gentile committing Fraud

Thank you for wishing me well and your post, I will send in updates as things get rolling here.

Is this the $5700 that you owe because you stopped paying?

Here's how it will go:
It's true that companies have to take steps to protect your information. However, it's no stretch to make the assertion that they made reasonable efforts to protect your information from unauthorized disclosure. However, this employee abused the policies/procedures that they had in place.

Look at it from an example. You call for a taxi cab. You leave your phone number so the driver can call you. You take your cab ride, and in the process manage to irritate the cab driver. He/she writes down your number that you gave and then repeatedly calls and harrasses you about it. Is it the cab company's fault their driver did it? Nope. It's the cab driver's fault.

You can attempt to hold the dealer responsible for it all you want. Saying they're responsible doesn't make it so. Any claim you have against Jim or the owner will be civil law, not criminal. If the criminal case against Jim (filed by the DA in your locality) is unsuccessful, you can still sue him under civil law.

In general, you can name anyone you want it a suit, but be careful. I'd ask the lawyer exactly why he feels it's appropriate to name the delership.

The $5700.00 was after the voluntary turn in. They auction it off and sticking me with it.. I was told by my lawyer that yes indeed we can sue the dealership and Mr. Gentile. I have already seeked legal advice and I am meeting up with lawyer this weekend to start the filing.

Sorry Cab has nothing to do with this. Again Naperville Toyota is RESPONSIBLE for this and they will pay up.. Our lawyer advised us to go after both of them in one lawsuit. I have done my homework and the lawyer said that we have enough proof to NAIL the dealership to the wall. That is what I am going to do.. It will be a COLD DAY IN HELL BEFORE I PAY TOYOTA $5700 dollars for a vechile that was SOLD to me by presention of FRAUD!

Good luck with your suit. I would suggest taking a paper bag to breathe in, however. Nothing like a screaming plaintiff to ruin a judge's goodwill.

Thank you for wishing me well. I know better to scream in court. You get alot more with honey than with vinegar.

Chris writes:

"Voluntary repossession or involuntary doesn't matter on the $5700 markweeble are stuck with. Standard practice (using round numbers) would be having a loan balance of $20k on a car, house, boat, doesn't matter. The lender is owed $20k. For whatever reason it is repossessed and it goes to auction and sells for $15k. Where does that $5k go? It goes back to the borrower. They are responsible for the difference (as the dealer stated). The lender actually can forgive the $5k debt, it still dings credit scores, and that is $5k extra income that has to be claimed on taxes.

Anyway, the fraud and harassment are the main issue here. I can honestly see a settlement of $5700 for "pain and suffering" caused by the harrassment which in turn pays off the depreciated/lost value of the car. The guy will be fired, but he now knows markweeble's phone number and your address (possibly scary). Everything will come out even in the end and the lawyer(s) will "earn" another couple of payments on his BMW."

Chris:

I was told by my lawyer that this is case is worth more than 10k settlement in court. You are right Fraud and Harassment is the Main Issue here. Thank you for your input.

Duster writes:

"As a dealership Business Manager (Slimy Finance Guy), I had to chime in on this story. From what I've read in the comments, I think things are getting a little confused. What happened to Mark is unfortunate, but aside from the harassment (which is an exceptionally stipid move on Jim's part), he did most of this to himself. He got caught up in the "too good to be true" gas mileage and fuel savings of the current "greatest thing ever", plunked his money down without doing his due dilligence and sat around twiddiling his thumbs until his new car arrived. It takes less than five minutes to get on the internet and find out that the projected gas mileage on the Prius (just like all vehicles) is usually not even close to real world numbers.

In regards to the financing on the vehicle, first and foremost, it's up to each person to take care of their own credit rating. Keeping your credit in good shape will leave you in a stronger position when it comes to getting things like car loans, and won't leave you in a spot where someone like Sleazy Jim can squeeze you and get you to cough up for adds you don't want. Jim saw an opening and took advantage of it. Immoral, yes, but very grey area and not at all the clear-cut case of "FRAUD! FRAUD!" that we hear ringing through the internet tubes. And yes, while all the arbitration was going on, you are still responsible to make those monthly payments you agreed to. (Just so you know, the hit your credit rating took when you stopped paying was the reason why your next loan approval came back with the condition of cash down)

Finally, as to the attempted return, most dealers here in the wilds of Canada are under no obligation to take any return, regardless of time frame or mileage (this just changed recently with Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep retailers like us, but even now it's not as easy as returning the vehicle and washing you hands of it). I'm not sure how it works in most states, but I guess a few do have laws that allow returns within seven days, etc. We are reasonable though, as long as the cutomer is, and will try to correct any concerns they might have. I can say, however, that if someone came back a month after purchasing a vehicle screaming "FRAUD!" and "LIES!" and demanding thier money back, we'd be alot less likely to jump up and help. And the shocking revelation that *gasp* a used vehicle might depreciate even after only a month is old news to all of us that have ever been in the auto industry, owned a car, or even stood near a car.

Long story short, Mark got a little screwed by a slimeball and apparent psycho, but that doesn't absolve him of his own stupidity. Take some responsibilty for you own actions, and maybe next time you won't be the "victim"."

HEY!

I am NOT STUPID! I DID NOT KNOW IT WAS FRAUD UNTIL ANOTHER TOYOTA DEALER TOLD ME. I DID NOT KNOW THAT THE WARRANTIES WERE NOT REQUIRED FOR APPORVAL OF THE LOAN UNTIL TOYOTA OF ROCKFORD,IL POINTED IT OUT THAT IT IS ILLEGAL FOR A SALESMAN TO TELL YOU THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE EXTENDED WARRANTIES TO GET APPROVED FOR A LOAN. ONCE I CAUGHT ON I IMMEDIATELY TOOK LEGAL ACTION.

Mark, it isn't really necessary to shout. You're getting a lot of publicity here, and you're going to want to make sure that it's all publicity you want, instead of publicity that's going to make its way into court and make you look unreasonable. No one here commenting has anything to lose by saying you were or weren't at fault. But you have something to lose by losing control, even in writing. It might be best to keep your own counsel and save your energy for the future. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Mark, though we still sympathize, slow your roll. The readership critiques both companies and one another. You have to be ready for both.

Maybe take a break from responding for a while.